I’ll see your indescribable emotion and raise you another:
I do not and have never empathized with this mindset. I understand wanting to help people and have a support network, but pairing up and breeding, like animals, to create an ever increasing amount of suffering just doesn’t do it for me. Seeing people express this strange longing and actually decreasing their own self worth as a result of not meeting the expectation they themself set, it’s a bizarre and hollow feeling.
Of course you dont empathize because you arent empathizing. YOU think its suffering, but if you empathize with the person do you think they think of it as suffering? Love is beautiful and raising kids can be very rewarding.
It feels weird that your argument is “this world is devoid of suffering.” I just can’t accept that as good faith. In the vast majority of cases, your children will not thank you, did not choose to be a part of your animalistic urges.
Interesting observation, honestly, maybe I am. I noticed I have a mania for human connection, I experience severe physical pain when I don’t socialize for long periods of time. Was that observation made because of my writing style or on a whim, ala “if I’m x then… Then you’re y!!!”?
Life is a lot more than suffering. There is a joy in human connections. Friends, family, partners, and children.
It’s alright if partners and/or children aren’t for you (even family) but its weirder to be entirely unable to empathize with a desire for human connections and life goals (which vary).
I understand desire for human connections and life goals, I just don’t understand envy for marriage and children. Those should result from a good thing going on, not be a primary motivator.
I mean the good thing going is already implied via the years before.
Life goals vary by person. These may not be the entirety of their life goals but a representation of one that is attainable to many. A strong and happy connection with your partner to the point they desire a child with you enough to go through pregnancy and childbirth and raising a child is not shallow
Very few people reach celebrity or make noticeable impact. Participation in minor community improvement is about as much as most people manage and its ok to be content with that.
I don’t include procreation, no matter how “healthy and proper” a relationship, on the same level as noticeable impact or becoming a part of recorded culture, nor even at the level of minor community improvement.
I’m a consequentialist, short term satisfaction or pleasures are of zero inherent value unless they aid in the production of longterm gains or advancements for all people.
It’s almost like people expect medal for deciding not to use a condom.
Raising a kid done right is a societal gain/benefit and can help those societal advancements. No one here is asking for a medal but the entire point of empathy at large is a recognition that people experience and feel differently than you do about certain things. That includes children.
Raising a kid done right is a societal gain/benefit
Not true. Even if you assume each and everyone with a professional or doctorate degree help further mankind, roughly 2.2% of the US population I don’t have data for other nations, then you would still have to conclude that the amount of scarcity and damage done to climate and ecosystem is less than their marginal benefit for each individual person.
Another 16 children are being born every second globally at the moment, the world population is still rising and the consequences continue to get more and more extreme every single moment. The vast majority of those children are going to live and die as a net negative to the tune of >90%.
I think Empathy is the exact opposite of what you and anon are displaying. Empathy’s root words mean “suffering together” while you ignore the suffering being caused, even self created suffering by judging yourselves negatively, and instead defend irrational instinctual behaviors.
Do you really believe only professionals and doctorates are societal benefits? Climate and environment is not a population problem but rather a capitalist problem of resource use/allocation. Replacement amounts of children (2) are one thing that is different than having like 5. There are societal problems with a lack of children which can be seen in Japan and will be seen in China as well as most western nations with low immigration.
The dictionary definition of empathy is : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another.
You’re just trying to force your own values without attempting to understand an opposing viewpoint. So yeah, you lack empathy.
If you don’t believe a communist (or other non-capitalist) country exists then you have to admit that it’s a population problem.
If you do believe a communist (or other non-capitalist) country exists then you have to admit that it’s a population problem in those countries as well.
The very clear and obvious fact of the matter is more people will pollute more, less people will pollute less.
Also, no, I don’t think only doctorates advance society. I personally think a small subsection of doctorates actually do tangible permanent good with their lives, not all of them. Probably evens itself out with the much smaller percentage of non-intellectuals who also do lasting good.
I’ll see your indescribable emotion and raise you another:
I do not and have never empathized with this mindset. I understand wanting to help people and have a support network, but pairing up and breeding, like animals, to create an ever increasing amount of suffering just doesn’t do it for me. Seeing people express this strange longing and actually decreasing their own self worth as a result of not meeting the expectation they themself set, it’s a bizarre and hollow feeling.
Of course you dont empathize because you arent empathizing. YOU think its suffering, but if you empathize with the person do you think they think of it as suffering? Love is beautiful and raising kids can be very rewarding.
It feels weird that your argument is “this world is devoid of suffering.” I just can’t accept that as good faith. In the vast majority of cases, your children will not thank you, did not choose to be a part of your animalistic urges.
Read his message a few times. There’s is nothing in it saying that the world is devoid of suffering. Also congratulations, you are a psychopath.
If I’m a psychopath then you’re a maniac.
Interesting observation, honestly, maybe I am. I noticed I have a mania for human connection, I experience severe physical pain when I don’t socialize for long periods of time. Was that observation made because of my writing style or on a whim, ala “if I’m x then… Then you’re y!!!”?
Nah, they just seem like your typical depressed anti-natalist.
I’m quite happy with my position in life, actually. Be cool if I could move to the EU, though.
Life is a lot more than suffering. There is a joy in human connections. Friends, family, partners, and children.
It’s alright if partners and/or children aren’t for you (even family) but its weirder to be entirely unable to empathize with a desire for human connections and life goals (which vary).
I understand desire for human connections and life goals, I just don’t understand envy for marriage and children. Those should result from a good thing going on, not be a primary motivator.
I mean the good thing going is already implied via the years before.
Life goals vary by person. These may not be the entirety of their life goals but a representation of one that is attainable to many. A strong and happy connection with your partner to the point they desire a child with you enough to go through pregnancy and childbirth and raising a child is not shallow
Very few people reach celebrity or make noticeable impact. Participation in minor community improvement is about as much as most people manage and its ok to be content with that.
I don’t include procreation, no matter how “healthy and proper” a relationship, on the same level as noticeable impact or becoming a part of recorded culture, nor even at the level of minor community improvement.
I’m a consequentialist, short term satisfaction or pleasures are of zero inherent value unless they aid in the production of longterm gains or advancements for all people.
It’s almost like people expect medal for deciding not to use a condom.
Raising a kid done right is a societal gain/benefit and can help those societal advancements. No one here is asking for a medal but the entire point of empathy at large is a recognition that people experience and feel differently than you do about certain things. That includes children.
Not true. Even if you assume each and everyone with a professional or doctorate degree help further mankind, roughly 2.2% of the US population I don’t have data for other nations, then you would still have to conclude that the amount of scarcity and damage done to climate and ecosystem is less than their marginal benefit for each individual person.
Another 16 children are being born every second globally at the moment, the world population is still rising and the consequences continue to get more and more extreme every single moment. The vast majority of those children are going to live and die as a net negative to the tune of >90%.
I think Empathy is the exact opposite of what you and anon are displaying. Empathy’s root words mean “suffering together” while you ignore the suffering being caused, even self created suffering by judging yourselves negatively, and instead defend irrational instinctual behaviors.
Do you really believe only professionals and doctorates are societal benefits? Climate and environment is not a population problem but rather a capitalist problem of resource use/allocation. Replacement amounts of children (2) are one thing that is different than having like 5. There are societal problems with a lack of children which can be seen in Japan and will be seen in China as well as most western nations with low immigration.
The dictionary definition of empathy is : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another.
You’re just trying to force your own values without attempting to understand an opposing viewpoint. So yeah, you lack empathy.
Any more is just a circle at this point I’m out.
If you don’t believe a communist (or other non-capitalist) country exists then you have to admit that it’s a population problem.
If you do believe a communist (or other non-capitalist) country exists then you have to admit that it’s a population problem in those countries as well.
The very clear and obvious fact of the matter is more people will pollute more, less people will pollute less.
Also, no, I don’t think only doctorates advance society. I personally think a small subsection of doctorates actually do tangible permanent good with their lives, not all of them. Probably evens itself out with the much smaller percentage of non-intellectuals who also do lasting good.