So the same organization that Russia said was its red line is going to protect Ukraine while maintaining peace? Makes no sense. This is just an attempt to keep a proxy war. Ukraine needs security guarantees, but any claims of NATO in the region will only escalate the conflict. It that is what they want to do then by all means.
You need some nuts to gargle on?
Don’t you understand? “”““Peace””“”" is worth any price. You have to stop the fighting!!! Even if that means you have to give up any thoughts of ruling yourselves or any self respect that the people might have. Just swallow up all those feelings of loss and grief for the dead, they died for nothing. Now we get to lose territory because John Richard over here thinks that being able to defend yourself would hurt putins fee fees.
Oh well.
You’re assuming a lot about me. Like I said, if you want to keep the war going by all means go ahead. I think it is abhorrent what Putin has done.
I can also think it is abhorrent what the US has been doing since the 1950s. For example, the so called “weapons of mass destruction” program that was actually discontinued, was about biological weapons that America had helped supply & fund for Saddam Hussein to engage in proxy wars against the Soviet Russia at the time.
The US funded terrorists in the 80s as part of Operation Cyclone to engage in a proxy war, which many of the fighters it helped train later became Al-Qaeda & fighters for Osama Bin Laden .
Ukraine is not going to defeat a world power with the largest nuclear arsenal by itself. Sanctions with Russia haven’t worked. About the only thing that would actually end the war & reclaim the land is for the US & other powers to take on Russia themself, risking a major nuclear escalation. If you think the proxy war is merely about protecting Ukrainians, you’re wrong.
No, but if you want someone to gargle on your nuts go ask the military industrial complex. I’m sure they’d love to suck them while you tell them how you want to spread America’s democracy around the globe. Maybe the people in Gaza can tell you how great American democracy has been both under Biden & Trump.
red line
I’m dying to hear your explanation for this.
I’d encourage you pickup a history book. Almost all conflicts in the Middle East since the 1950s have have been proxy wars between the US & Russia. I’m not defending Putin at all. You have to determine though if you’re ready to send your own kids to war to take on a world power with the largest nuclear arsenal. I assume you think Ukraine is going to defeat Russia by itself?
I wasn’t arguing the proxy war point, I’m more curious why you think Russia gets to dictate who joins what organization.
That’s the core of the issue. The question shouldn’t just why Russia gets to dictate who joins what—it’s why the U.S. gets to dictate that, too.
This isn’t a new conflict; it’s a modern iteration of a decades-long power struggle. Since the Cold War began, the U.S. has been engaged in a series of proxy wars and conflicts with Russia, often to avoid a direct confrontation but always to expand its influence.
Korea, Vietnam, Soviet-Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua. The U.S. supplied and funded one side to fight the other, turning local conflicts into deadly battlefields for geopolitical gain.
This was all part of the U.S. anti-communism agenda, which led to the overthrow of democratically elected governments and the creation of humanitarian disasters abroad. The U.S. overthrew elected leaders in Iran, Guatemala, and Chile because their policies weren’t aligned with American interests, replacing them with brutal dictators.
At home, this same paranoia led to the McCarthy era, where the U.S. government persecuted its own citizens, blacklisting academics and artists in a nationwide campaign to stifle dissent.
So when a NATO chief advocates for providing protection guarantees to Ukraine, Russia sees that as the continuation of a hostile pattern. Given that Russia possesses the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that is a legitimate security concern. In this dangerous game, the U.S. and NATO are risking a far larger conflict to win a proxy war, and in the process, they are prioritizing a geopolitical struggle over a peaceful solution for the Ukrainian people.
Hey genius, if Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent NATO expansion, why are there 2 more NATO countries than before the war started? Why doesn’t Russia threaten to nuke them? Is it genuinely inconceivable that the neighbors of an imperialist power would want protection guarantees against said power? While we’re at it, look up the fucking Budapest memorandum.
And literally what the fuck is putin afraid of? A NATO invasion? That’s a brain damaged take for a number of reasons, but even if so, the best thing would be to hold tight and secure their own territory, NOT PISS AWAY THEIR ENTIRE MILITARY. But now the world factually knows that Russia is a paper tiger that is borderline incapable of operating in modern combat, instead still relying on soviet tactics like artillery and meat waves.
That is not what I stated. I am against what Putin has done. I can be against that while also pointing to historical evidence that the US has been involved in similar projects throughout the world, usually with catastrophic consequences for civilian populations. Are you then to claim the US is a paper tiger as well since it has failed to succeed in small countries? Of course it isn’t, because there is more context. To pretend Russia is on its knees is ignorance. Only people spoon fed pro-war propaganda believe such things. Just like the US, Russia doesn’t expend its most advanced & expensive weaponey in conflicts like this because those are reserved for conflict with the likes of the US. What Ukraine has done well though is make Putin weaker in terms of the opinion of the Russian people, like Iraq & Afghanistan did in the US for those politicians.
You should think about what the actual result of this war escalating looks like though, not just for Ukraine but for the US and other nuclear powers. It isn’t pretty & maybe that is something you’re willing to move forward with. That doesn’t mean there aren’t strategies for helping Ukraine, or that Russia shouldn’t face consequences, but if you think pushing NATO next to Russia is a good idea then I hope you fully understand what the consequences likely are. It won’t make them weaker, but will only give people like Putin more power in the future.
Are you then to claim the US is a paper tiger as well since it has failed to succeed in small countries?
5k military deaths in 20 years of bullshit in Afghanistan. How many Russians dead after 3 in Ukraine? Yeah, totally the same. The US failed on metrics other than military might.
Just like the US, Russia doesn’t expend its most advanced & expensive weaponey in conflicts like this because those are reserved for conflict with the likes of the US.
Lolwat. The US uses its own wars as an excuse to show off the latest and greatest. Russia doesn’t use the latest and greatest because they can’t mass produce it. How many fucking SU-57s do they have? How many T-14s? They’re pulling out mothballed soviet vehicles.
but if you think pushing NATO next to Russia is a good idea
HEY IVAN, CAN YOU THINK OF ANY REASONS WHY A COUNTRY NEXT TO RUSSIA MIGHT WANT DEFENSIVE ALLIANCES AGAINST RUSSIA? Maybe if they didn’t invade basically every country next to them, they wouldn’t be so worried eh? I’m trying to get the point through your thick skull but you dodge it like your life depends on it. Sure, the US has done fucked up shit, but literally no sane interpretation of the relationship between the US, NATO, and Ukraine justify an invasion. Like you keep talking about NATO like that means anything. Why does putin give a shit if they’re next door if he isn’t expecting an invasion?
And again, GOOGLE. BUDAPEST. MEMORANDUM.
