There’s no arguing a moron who keeps pretending it’s black and white. I’ll prove to you just how asinine your view is: my brother is a hunter. They cull roe deer to keep the population in check, since humans have been the apex predator in these parts for thousands of years.
If they didn’t cull them, the population would destroy the entire ecological system, which would lead to all the deer dying, eventually. Not to mention increased deer accidents on roads, killing more people.
So while you like to pretend that death is horrible and to be avoided at all costs if you can, but then end up advocating practices which would lead to suffering and death, just indirectly.
Ie if you’re put into a trolley problem, you’re the type to just stand there without pulling the lever which would save several life at the cost of one, because “murdering is wrong and I’d bw actively killing the other person myself”. Meaning that you put your own ideas and the sense of personality you have above the lives of others. Not just better as ideas, but you’d actually stand there watching the trolley roll over people you could’ve saved, but chose not to, so that you can just blame others.
And you talk of empathy, rofl. Maybe start by trying to understand your own thoughts/views.
Oh and eating the resulting meat from the culling is fucking delicious AND moral.
What would you do with sheep amd cows btw? They require people. Sheep have to be shorn. If you don’t shear your sheep, that’s tantamount to animal abuse. So we end up getting wool, but you don’t think it’s moral to use that. Why?
So if you think we can’t keep sheep or cows anymore, and they can’t be released into the wild because they are domesticated species. So then stop letting them breed at all, meaning that in a generation, they’d be completely gone.
So you end up advocating for genocide of entire species with this black and white view you have.
You know all the produce you eat is protected from pests and other animals? Your avocado isn’t “cruelty-free” dude, and eating avocados when they’re not even grown on the same continent, have them flown to you? But that’s moral again, because you don’t have to personally think about death you’re indirectly causing.
Well Mr. Knowitall, let me help you in you nuanced world view that you’re so well known for. Hunting isn’t the main source of meat consumption worldwide, cattle is. Together with humans, this adds up to about 95-97% of all terrestrial mammal biomass, depending on what research result you care to follow. Your brother is making life more miserable for the remaining percentage who have a tough time holding on as it is. Keeping the population in check is just an excuse that hunters use to justify their love for killing off animals. Often it takes a second or third shot for the final kill, letting the animal suffer in the mean time.
Also, predation isn’t the main driver for a population size, the amount of available food is. Although natural predators do help in keeping the ecosystem healthy, which indirectly leads to more stable populations. People can’t do that really, we’re only suitable for extermination, as we’ve proven time and time again. You speak of thousands of years as if that means anything in nature, where ecosystems have existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Besides, human population density is only something of the last two centuries.
No need to remind me of my shortcomings, I’m well aware of them. But you do know that meat consumption requires more plants and associated animal harm than a vegan diet, right?
When we stop breeding farm animals now they will be gone in about 20 years time, or sooner when bloodthirsty types like yourself will have a go at them. Their place will then be taken by wild animals, in more abundant nature because way less area is required for our plant-based food production.
Anyway, eating meat is a choice, which does not benefit the animals being eaten. It is only for human pleasure. And for humans it’s not even necessary to eat meat, as we’re omnivores. You can still have tasty meals without meat, believe me.
But hey, I’m done with this discussion, you’ll probably never agree to any point I make. Take care, perhaps you have some vegetarians or vegans nearby that you might talk to, so you can start to live more sustainably, together with the rest of the 8 billion we number.
PS: calling me a moron does prove my point of you lacking empathy. Please do better than that.
I’m talking about the general (mostly western world) public, not the few people with special medical conditions or those with limited access to foodstuffs.
But tell me, is there nothing I write here acceptable for you or do you only pick out the things you can comment on?
You can easily get all the nutrients you need from plants, without the related animal suffering, climate warming or land use. So what’s left is just that meat (& dairy) tastes good, which is human-centred temporary pleasure at the expense of innocent creatures, specifically bred for that purpose.
I’m trying to get some sense into you, that misusing animals, heating up the planet and destroying nature is a bad thing to do. But it seems you stubbornly refuse to hear any of it, looking for excuses to keep your current behaviour. But things need to change, not only for animals and nature, but also for our next generations.
Not anytime soon, I agree, but the way that humans are conducting themselves presently is not sustainable. Nature will of course survive, as it has already been through 5 mass extinction events previously, but mankind will either be decimated or exterminated. By going vegan this can be mitigated.
meat consumption requires more plants and associated animal harm than a vegan diet
livestock are mostly fed parts of plants that we dont want to eat. the same amount of plants would probably be harvested, but the by products would just go to waste.
About 80% (!) of the agricultural area worldwide is used for cattle - grasslands and plants that are specifically grown to feed animals. It’s not like they eat the parts that humans don’t want, they eat protein-rich corn and soy so they produce meat and milk as fast as possible.
Cause: very simple logic about a very black and white worldview (veganism)
Effect: mister “you don’t understand cause and effect” runs away with his tail between his legs
It’s literally always the same. You have bravado and think youre better but in fact you’re just looking for an ingroup which allows you to feel superior to others (you’re not)
Nice strawman.
What’s it like, living in a black and white world?
Literally no idea. You can’t see cause and effect, can you? No sense of empathy neither. Ah well, you’re not alone, unfortunately. For the moment.
Again, black and white.
There’s no arguing a moron who keeps pretending it’s black and white. I’ll prove to you just how asinine your view is: my brother is a hunter. They cull roe deer to keep the population in check, since humans have been the apex predator in these parts for thousands of years.
If they didn’t cull them, the population would destroy the entire ecological system, which would lead to all the deer dying, eventually. Not to mention increased deer accidents on roads, killing more people.
So while you like to pretend that death is horrible and to be avoided at all costs if you can, but then end up advocating practices which would lead to suffering and death, just indirectly.
Ie if you’re put into a trolley problem, you’re the type to just stand there without pulling the lever which would save several life at the cost of one, because “murdering is wrong and I’d bw actively killing the other person myself”. Meaning that you put your own ideas and the sense of personality you have above the lives of others. Not just better as ideas, but you’d actually stand there watching the trolley roll over people you could’ve saved, but chose not to, so that you can just blame others.
And you talk of empathy, rofl. Maybe start by trying to understand your own thoughts/views.
Oh and eating the resulting meat from the culling is fucking delicious AND moral.
What would you do with sheep amd cows btw? They require people. Sheep have to be shorn. If you don’t shear your sheep, that’s tantamount to animal abuse. So we end up getting wool, but you don’t think it’s moral to use that. Why?
So if you think we can’t keep sheep or cows anymore, and they can’t be released into the wild because they are domesticated species. So then stop letting them breed at all, meaning that in a generation, they’d be completely gone.
So you end up advocating for genocide of entire species with this black and white view you have.
You know all the produce you eat is protected from pests and other animals? Your avocado isn’t “cruelty-free” dude, and eating avocados when they’re not even grown on the same continent, have them flown to you? But that’s moral again, because you don’t have to personally think about death you’re indirectly causing.
So yeah
Well Mr. Knowitall, let me help you in you nuanced world view that you’re so well known for. Hunting isn’t the main source of meat consumption worldwide, cattle is. Together with humans, this adds up to about 95-97% of all terrestrial mammal biomass, depending on what research result you care to follow. Your brother is making life more miserable for the remaining percentage who have a tough time holding on as it is. Keeping the population in check is just an excuse that hunters use to justify their love for killing off animals. Often it takes a second or third shot for the final kill, letting the animal suffer in the mean time. Also, predation isn’t the main driver for a population size, the amount of available food is. Although natural predators do help in keeping the ecosystem healthy, which indirectly leads to more stable populations. People can’t do that really, we’re only suitable for extermination, as we’ve proven time and time again. You speak of thousands of years as if that means anything in nature, where ecosystems have existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Besides, human population density is only something of the last two centuries.
No need to remind me of my shortcomings, I’m well aware of them. But you do know that meat consumption requires more plants and associated animal harm than a vegan diet, right?
When we stop breeding farm animals now they will be gone in about 20 years time, or sooner when bloodthirsty types like yourself will have a go at them. Their place will then be taken by wild animals, in more abundant nature because way less area is required for our plant-based food production.
Anyway, eating meat is a choice, which does not benefit the animals being eaten. It is only for human pleasure. And for humans it’s not even necessary to eat meat, as we’re omnivores. You can still have tasty meals without meat, believe me.
But hey, I’m done with this discussion, you’ll probably never agree to any point I make. Take care, perhaps you have some vegetarians or vegans nearby that you might talk to, so you can start to live more sustainably, together with the rest of the 8 billion we number.
PS: calling me a moron does prove my point of you lacking empathy. Please do better than that.
you don’t know what anyone else needs. you’re not their doctor or dietician.
I’m talking about the general (mostly western world) public, not the few people with special medical conditions or those with limited access to foodstuffs. But tell me, is there nothing I write here acceptable for you or do you only pick out the things you can comment on?
it’s primarily for nutrients.
You can easily get all the nutrients you need from plants, without the related animal suffering, climate warming or land use. So what’s left is just that meat (& dairy) tastes good, which is human-centred temporary pleasure at the expense of innocent creatures, specifically bred for that purpose.
people primarily eat to get nutrients. you’re just trying to obfuscate.
I’m trying to get some sense into you, that misusing animals, heating up the planet and destroying nature is a bad thing to do. But it seems you stubbornly refuse to hear any of it, looking for excuses to keep your current behaviour. But things need to change, not only for animals and nature, but also for our next generations.
lying about why people eat isn’t going to win me over to your way of thinking.
there is no reason to believe this would happen
Not anytime soon, I agree, but the way that humans are conducting themselves presently is not sustainable. Nature will of course survive, as it has already been through 5 mass extinction events previously, but mankind will either be decimated or exterminated. By going vegan this can be mitigated.
livestock are mostly fed parts of plants that we dont want to eat. the same amount of plants would probably be harvested, but the by products would just go to waste.
About 80% (!) of the agricultural area worldwide is used for cattle - grasslands and plants that are specifically grown to feed animals. It’s not like they eat the parts that humans don’t want, they eat protein-rich corn and soy so they produce meat and milk as fast as possible.
Cause: very simple logic about a very black and white worldview (veganism)
Effect: mister “you don’t understand cause and effect” runs away with his tail between his legs
It’s literally always the same. You have bravado and think youre better but in fact you’re just looking for an ingroup which allows you to feel superior to others (you’re not)
You don’t know shit about me.
Oops sorry, discussion was closed already.