the MacBook pros are actually a tremendously good value if you actually need their power
I mean sure, if you like spending $1500+ on a new computer every year…they’re completely irreparable, unupgradeable, and they have a definite lifespan when Apple arbitrarily decides that they’re “obsolete”.
If we are being fair, Apple doesn’t arbitrarily decide when something becomes obsolete, it is at 7 years for them when they retire hardware from support, that covers software as well.
Also, MacBook Pros have a longer shelf life on average than PC counterparts, unless it is corporate not many Mac users are upgrading their hardware every year. I believe the average is every 3-5 years but I know people who are still using 10+ year old MacBook Airs as their daily driver for personal use.
I guess you have your own definition of arbitrary because 7 years for in house support of their hardware isn’t decided on a whim or by chance but seems well reasoned.
But I can see by your shelf life comment that you have no intention of actually discussing anything and are just trolling so, goodbye!
You pose no threat because your position is transparent. Your argument here relies on saying what isn’t ok for you without stating your what you would prefer instead which leaves you open to moving the goalposts to wherever you want them to be.
You don’t have a position in this discussion beyond Apple bad for “reasons” and puffing out your chest. It is all air, smoke and mirrors. You ask questions as your argument and when they are answered you redefine what the entire discussion is about. This is an argumentative method used by children.
Do better, because I am smarter than you; I can see that any discussion with you is a waste of time.
Your argument here relies on saying what isn’t ok for you without stating your what you would prefer
I didn’t say it, because it doesn’t need saying, because it should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about Apple. But since you asked so nicely: Stop ending software support prematurely. Stop inventing new screws. Make schematics available. Make replacement parts available. Stop soldering everything to the board. Stop charging more for SSD and RAM than literal fucking gold. Stop locking iOS behind your fucking App Store. Stop doing everything humanly possible to prevent interoperability. Just generally stop showing such fucking contempt for your own consumers. Need I go on?
I can see that any discussion with you is a waste of time.
And yet here you are.
Your turn: In what way is 7 years “well reasoned”?
Even though my PC use is now 75% Linux, I do still have an M2 MacBook Air. That thing is three years old and still as powerful as the day I bought it. Though to be fair, it’s not running macOS 26, because fuck that.
Their hardware is legitimately incredible. But as a company they’re dog shit. Hence my 75% Linux use. If Asahi was as useful on my MacBook as Kubuntu on my desktop, I wouldn’t be using my Air with macOS at all.
Are we playing with anecdotes? Because I can give you dozens of examples of Mac hardware that had a minor issue that killed the whole thing because Apple either wanted to charge an exorbitant fee or outright refused to repair it.
In principle I agree with you. But have you seen the state of the rest of the industry? Framework stands out as a bastion of repairability, the rest is mostly garbage.
I’d honestly expect a longer lifetime from a Macbook than almost anything else on the market at this point, especially if we are talking about high performance laptops for ”creative” work. You know, apart from an old Thinkpad, those machines are invincible.
“The rest of the industry” is an extremely large generalization. Some of them are nearly as bad, many of them are not.
No one else invents new screws to prevent access (except Nintendo). No one else puts in their contracts that their manufacturers can’t sell components to anyone else. No one else serializes components so that you can’t swap parts from a donor board. I could go on.
No one else invents new screws to prevent access (except Nintendo).
Like, on gamepads? I have multiple sets of security bits that I bought just to get required bits to open gamepads, and I’ve never owned a Nintendo gamepad.
I mean sure, if you like spending $1500+ on a new computer every year…they’re completely irreparable, unupgradeable, and they have a definite lifespan when Apple arbitrarily decides that they’re “obsolete”.
If we are being fair, Apple doesn’t arbitrarily decide when something becomes obsolete, it is at 7 years for them when they retire hardware from support, that covers software as well.
Also, MacBook Pros have a longer shelf life on average than PC counterparts, unless it is corporate not many Mac users are upgrading their hardware every year. I believe the average is every 3-5 years but I know people who are still using 10+ year old MacBook Airs as their daily driver for personal use.
My 2011 13" Pro is still trucking along. Granted, it’s running Linux these days, but it’s still a damn useful machine.
7 years is arbitrary.
Who cares about “shelf life”? I don’t buy a computer and put it on a shelf…
I guess you have your own definition of arbitrary because 7 years for in house support of their hardware isn’t decided on a whim or by chance but seems well reasoned.
But I can see by your shelf life comment that you have no intention of actually discussing anything and are just trolling so, goodbye!
Oh, I can’t wait for this. Please tell me what the “well reason” is?
That I’m smarter than you? Yes, bowing out is probably a good choice at this point.
You’re funny.
You pose no threat because your position is transparent. Your argument here relies on saying what isn’t ok for you without stating your what you would prefer instead which leaves you open to moving the goalposts to wherever you want them to be.
You don’t have a position in this discussion beyond Apple bad for “reasons” and puffing out your chest. It is all air, smoke and mirrors. You ask questions as your argument and when they are answered you redefine what the entire discussion is about. This is an argumentative method used by children.
Do better, because I am smarter than you; I can see that any discussion with you is a waste of time.
I didn’t say it, because it doesn’t need saying, because it should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about Apple. But since you asked so nicely: Stop ending software support prematurely. Stop inventing new screws. Make schematics available. Make replacement parts available. Stop soldering everything to the board. Stop charging more for SSD and RAM than literal fucking gold. Stop locking iOS behind your fucking App Store. Stop doing everything humanly possible to prevent interoperability. Just generally stop showing such fucking contempt for your own consumers. Need I go on?
And yet here you are.
Your turn: In what way is 7 years “well reasoned”?
I’ve found another victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Even though my PC use is now 75% Linux, I do still have an M2 MacBook Air. That thing is three years old and still as powerful as the day I bought it. Though to be fair, it’s not running macOS 26, because fuck that.
Their hardware is legitimately incredible. But as a company they’re dog shit. Hence my 75% Linux use. If Asahi was as useful on my MacBook as Kubuntu on my desktop, I wouldn’t be using my Air with macOS at all.
Sounds like you had a string of good luck. It’ll probably break tomorrow.
The 2011 MacBook I still have that still works a treat (with Linux) was also an incredibly lucky purchase too, I guess.
Are we playing with anecdotes? Because I can give you dozens of examples of Mac hardware that had a minor issue that killed the whole thing because Apple either wanted to charge an exorbitant fee or outright refused to repair it.
In principle I agree with you. But have you seen the state of the rest of the industry? Framework stands out as a bastion of repairability, the rest is mostly garbage.
I’d honestly expect a longer lifetime from a Macbook than almost anything else on the market at this point, especially if we are talking about high performance laptops for ”creative” work. You know, apart from an old Thinkpad, those machines are invincible.
“The rest of the industry” is an extremely large generalization. Some of them are nearly as bad, many of them are not.
No one else invents new screws to prevent access (except Nintendo). No one else puts in their contracts that their manufacturers can’t sell components to anyone else. No one else serializes components so that you can’t swap parts from a donor board. I could go on.
Like, on gamepads? I have multiple sets of security bits that I bought just to get required bits to open gamepads, and I’ve never owned a Nintendo gamepad.
Security bits are in use all over the place. They sell them at harbor freight. Not really specialized.