Remembering to look for and ignore folks with that telltale indicator has made the fediverse so much more enjoyable.
My .ml experience:
- Have a different opinion
- Get banned for rule 2
- See what rule 2 is
- Respect other opinions
me, a shitjustworks based fucker
Hue hue hue
The tell-tale indicator is the post itself, not the instance.
I’ll make my own judgments, thank you.US liberals are so upset when they hear anything to the left of AOC.
Pretending Russia, China and NK are flawless just because they’re (former) communist countries isn’t left of AOC, it’s just plain idioicy and propaganda.
You’re making things up to be mad about. Nobody pretends that those countries are flawless. You just can’t seem to handle the idea that none of those countries are 1/10 the threat to the world that the US is.
I’ve repeatedly seen posts on lemmy.ml defending Russia and NK, both brutal dictatorships that tread on human rights with feet, so no. I am most certainly not making stuff up
Defending them isn’t the same as saying they are flawless. What is the point of criticizing North Korea? Especially from a country like the US who does far more harm to the world than either NK or Russia.
Just because the US is a pile of crap doesn’t make it remotely acceptable to defend brutal dictatorships that will arrest you for simply being gay. Or throw you out of a window if you complain about their dear leader too much.
When I say “defend” I don’t mean a blanket defense. There are good criticisms to make, some of which you’ve highlighted. Unfortunately, such criticisms are too often used as excuses to write off those countries entirely, and to justify any and all attacks on them. For example, I often hear it said that I shouldn’t defend Palestinians, because they are anti gay. This is meant to distract us from the even greater evil occurring. You can do this with literally any country, which would mean that it isn’t “remotely acceptable to defend” any of them.
Except I’ve literally seen several of those blanket defenses on ml, as well as posts claiming that these countries aren’t even dictatorships, as well as posts justifying and defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and placing the blame for the continuing war on Ukraine for not surrendering. All of which I’ve seen posted, and upvoted uncritically on ml
It won’t matter in the end. Their shitty Colombus Epoch is coming to an end
What in the universe are you envisioning?
US Liberals are upset when they see anyone further left than Ronald Reagan
Ah yes. Telling Ukraine that they should “stop fighting so people stop dieing” is being left of AOC and not Russian propaganda. We at ml are just peace absolutists, it’s just a coincidence that our peace absolutism somehow involves just giving everything to Russia.
I’m curious how you envision Ukraine winning. From where I’m standing, I cannot see any remotely realistic pathway for them to regain any significant amount of territory. There may have been (probably was) a time when more/different weapons would have made a real difference, but at this point it’s a matter of manpower. Do you think anyone is going to send troops?
Believe it or not, I don’t think Russia is well-run, or a good place for workers. I don’t like their foreign policy either. However, I also don’t think it’s useful or accurate to reduce them to “Putin bad”. Of course he’s bad, but that doesn’t explain major Russian foreign policy anymore than “Trump bad” explains major US foreign policy. Not saying that nuance is an excuse, but you can’t make any real analysis without it.
However, I also don’t think it’s useful or accurate to reduce them to “Putin bad"
As their neighbour, I totally agree. It’s not Putin bad. It’s everyone from fucking Russia. There’s nothing that came from Russia and wasn’t made into an abomination.
(* Except Russian people who left Russia because they could see how god damn awful that place and everyone in it is; Pretending otherwise is literally dismissing their culture).
Pretending that Marxist-Leninists have Leftist beliefs is cute. That workers have no self-determination and have to tow the party line under threat of violence is the dead giveaway
The communist party is run by the working classes and derives its power from popular support. The people oppressed by communist parties were overwhelmingly fascists, landlords, and capitalists.
Out right lies. The communist parties (the ones that have existed, not the the theoretical ones) derive their power from threat of violence against workers. They’re a non-hereditary nobility that oppress workers (except North Korea which is now a hereditary monarchy).
Incorrect, on all counts. Communist parties derive their power from popular support from the working classes, as they themselves are working class. State violence is used against fascists, sabateurs, capitalists, and landlords. If they truly were a nobility concerned only with oppressing workers, then you have to prove why there was such dramatic improvements in social welfare, poverty eradication, key life metrics, studied Marxism and taught it in universities, and more. Certainly these would have been of no importance to a new ruling class?
You’re dramatically incorrect here.
Communists are rich people who are privileged enough to not work and spend all day larping. They dont know working class people they’ve never met any.
I’m a communist and that’s false for me and every communist I know IRL that I work with, and is also false on an international scale. Communist parties are working class parties.
Communists love to wear working class struggle as a disguise. They aren’t working class and once they get power they use and abuse them just like every other rich cunt.
Some communists, not all communists.
Nah pretty safe to say all.
This is nonsense. Communists seek collectivization of production and distribution to satisfy the needs of all, and when communists take power the first things they do is implement measures like land reform, literacy campaigns, and expropriate property from landlords and capitalists to better serve the interests of the people.
That problem is that not all communists were made equal. I’ve heard plenty of communists talk that I can respect but MLs aren’t the ones. Bolsheviks always managed to get their needs especially met and before anyone elses needs.
That problem is that not all communists were made equal. I’ve heard plenty of communists talk that I can respect but MLs aren’t the ones. Bolsheviks always managed to get their needs especially met and before anyone elses needs.
First thing they do is strip rights away from people. Second thing they do is start erasing history. Third is increasing police forces to crack down on any dissent.
Communists serve the communist party not the people.
That problem is that not all communists were made equal. I’ve heard plenty of communists talk that I can respect but MLs aren’t the ones. Bolsheviks always managed to get their needs especially met and before anyone elses needs.
Most of my friends are some flavor of Anarchist or Socialist. Of the two outright Commies that I’ve known (who described themselves as such) one was a man of the people and the other was a lazy spoiled phony who’s communism expressed itself mainly as sharing memes on facebook.
What not reading and uncritically swallowing western propaganda does to a MF
Here’s one of the bootlickers now. Bro, you’re a right winger obsessed with collectivization. Quit stinking up the revolution with your nonsense.
Quit stinking up the revolution with your CIA indoctrinated understanding of “authoritarianism” and your non materialist way of understanding history. To you, European social-democracy isn’t authoritarian because you happen not to live in the lands affected by neocolonialism.
Meanwhile you swallow campist doctrine. Ok buddy
Projecting much?
Related to your post: I’ve seen people from Lemmy.ml defend imperialist behaviour from Russia and China. Surely the left is supposed to oppose imperialism - whether it’s from the US, Europe, Russia, China, or anywhere else.
I was wondering why so many tankies dominated that instance.
ML meaning “Marxist-Leninists” makes so much more sense now.
What a bunch of assholes.
it actually stands for country of Mali but tankies are right there engaging in imperialism and failing to see the irony lol
The best part. ML losers got the domain because “paying 5$ a year for TLD is capitalism!” and then in 2023 free .ml domains were discontinued because surprise surprise - it was a stupid idea lmao
What a bunch of mega losers lemmy.ml is.
Using cheap/free options to get an open source non-profit social media app off the ground is imperialism now 😭
Poor Mali deserves reparations for the domain name we ripped from their children, all posts shall now start with a land acknowledgement 😂
God you guys are hilarious sometimes
TLD is 5$ per year - the decision is purely vanity and nothing about this is smart or practical.
I learned that lesson this week.
I never know the difference between all these Lemmy instances and why some communities are full of insane people
You know what’s funny is .ml was one of the first instances I signed up for. I thought it stood for machine learning or something to do with programming.
I knew it was a leftist instance. I went into it (naively) excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space, considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship. I was quite disappointed to learn quickly that it was just more of the same tankie brain rot, with more of the same tankie censorship you can find in a thousand different tedious places.
Even then I stuck with it for a bit. And then I learned that the head admin was potentially the most fragile person on the Internet, who literally will not post outside his own instance because he cannot handle any internet where he does not have (what he believes to be) a “win argument” ban button. It is literally so cringe, I cannot stand to be associated with it, and I don’t understand how other people tolerate being associated with his antics.
I only signed up since it was one of the few instances allowing registration at the time of a big reddit exodus. Just haven’t made too many new accounts in other instances yet but yes, the community is in an echo chamber.
… we don’t?
I literally can’t do what the meme suggests, because I’ve already blocked all users from that instance automatically.
You might try slrpnk.net for what you were looking for. I guess you know that by now, but in case anyone else is reading and thinking similarly.
MLs are essentially incapable of arguing in good faith. You know how Christians quote to bible to “prove” their religion is true? MLs are the political version of that.
I haven’t read a single exchange with a .ml tankie that hasn’t been utterly juvenile roleplay nonsense with no desire to engage with reality, I don’t give them any amount of my attention or even irritation, if kids wanna do roleplay stuff between games of Hearts of Iron 4, they can, but other instances should ban roleplay outside of their specific circle-jerking forum.
Honestly I will half agree with you. Really we should be providing primary sources if we want to prove anything.
Not because I don’t believe socialist news sources are inaccurate it’s just that liberals are not going to believe it.
I opened a thread just yesterday and the top comment was “I recommend you read this article if you want to know what Noam Chomsky is really like”. It was upvoted. I like to learn things, and don’t really listen to a lot of Chomsky. So I started reading.
It was the most uneducated, biased, ragebait crap I’d ever seen posted to the fediverse. I started mentally building my reply about how “people are saying” is the worst kind of fallacy, and providing a quote from someone else with a different opinion doesn’t count as opposing evidence. I actually got a little upset, disillusioned even, wondering how anyone could fall for this idiotic “argument”. I didn’t agree or disagree with any point, but it was just so poorly made.
I went to reply, thinking I should provide some warning, then I noticed I was in an ml community. I’m mobile, so it sometimes doesn’t show the community until I’ve clicked (I know I can change that in the settings). I considered posting anyway, but it felt so fruitless. It feels like they’re either sheep or assets. I moved on. I feel better getting to let it out here instead.
As someone leaning ML, this makes me feel like I haven’t argued with my own side in a while… Or I am less ML than I think I am…
I have an ML account and usually just jump back and forth between .world local posts and .ml local posts and I swear I’m not seeing all this hostility people talk about anywhere
excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space
considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship
Lmfao. What’s leftism to you?
Tankies are lefties alright. Just braindead ones
Braindead is when you deviate one millimeter from western capitalist state propaganda
You can deviate without lapping up Kremlin propaganda
Five communists got enjailed in Ufa last week for reading Lenin. Being pro-USSR and anti-USA+EU doesnt equate with being pro-Russian Republic
You were defending the Russian republic just two days ago need i remind you
What do you consider a non braindead leftist?
As long as you avoid campism and are ready to criticize the USSR and Maoist China for what they did wrong you’re not braindead
Reasonable. Although it seams at this point tankie is just a blanket derocatory term to anyone who supports communism. I was a bit concerned that you were calling all communists braindead, although its good that you aren’t.
Nah nah. I’m not that braindead 😅
wait, what does it stand for?
Mutilated Leprechauns
You just reminded me of Ween’s masterpiece album, ’ The mollusk’
Technically it is the top-level domain name for Mali.
I’m fairly certain that the Lemmy devs chose it because of their two favorite socialists/communists: Marx and Lenin. But I can’t find a reference to that right now.
Marx was a socialist political philosopher, that helped define the social end goal of communism. Lenin was a militant revolutionary that thought he could ignore Marx’s slow natural social evolution to communism. And force it under authoritarian boot heel. He was aspirationally communist at best, but not communist. His ideology has failed to achieve it everywhere it was tried. Generally, creating a new class of Petit Bourgeoisie or even collapsing into open fascism.
Other than that you are correct. Lemmy.ml hexbear.ml and lemmygrad.ml all chose the Mali TLD because of the abbreviation.
Just like .TV domain is actually Tuvalu but Twitch and other livestreaming sites use it as abbreviation. These countries actually make a lot of money from selling top level domains like that.
Yes though I thought I remembered reading something a few years ago about them reclaiming them. But hard to turn down money.
Other than that you are correct. Lemmy.ml hexbear.ml and lemmygrad.ml all chose the Mali TLD because of the abbreviation.
it’s hexbear.net
That is such a simplification that it is probably wrong.
Marx did not really concern himself with the ultimate goal of communism. His great achievement was his analysis of capitalism. Marx did not describe a slow evolution toward communism, but rather a process in which the contradictions he identified in capitalism culminate in revolution. No evolution! The few times he commented on communism, he described its prerequisites. He writes in the Communist Manifesto “In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat.”
Lenin’s approach was enormously successful in some respects. After the October Revolution, the USSR underwent unprecedented industrial development, which greatly improved the living conditions of most people. In general, the argument that “it has never worked before” is very problematic. For some strange reason, communist countries have always found themselves under massive attack from capitalist countries. For example, by Hitler’s Germany or the US. Inconceivable sums of money were invested by global capital and its states to show “that communism does not work.” If it really hadn’t worked, none of that would have been necessary. That still applies today. Lenin was a right-wing, authoritarian communist and was rightly criticized for this by people like Rosa Luxemburg. But economically, things were improving so rapidly that capitalist states became increasingly concerned. The fear was so great that capitalists in the US even agreed to the New Deal. Something similar happened in Europe.
ML does not stand for Marx and Lenin, but for Marxism-Leninism. A propagandistic self-description of the system of the Soviet Union under Stalin. Another word for it is Stalinism.
Lenin wasn’t trying to erase that transition to communism is gradual, but instead correctly identified that the beginning of that transition is revolution, which Marxists at the time had erased from Marx. Dialectical materialism posits that there are revolutionary leaps after quantitative buildups, the transition to socialism is the beginning of the next long gradual process of achieving communism. He did not “force it under authoritarian boot heel,” but instead was the leader of the bolsheviks, a mass party chosen by the working claases.
Contrary to your position, Marxism-Leninism has successfully established socialism in many countries, and is so widely adopted by leftists partially because of its practical success. It’s the western leftists that endlessly move goalposts to invalidate socialism outside the west that results in perpetuation of bourgeois narratives surrounding socialism as it exists in real life.
Honestly, your appraisal of Lenin and Marx makes it come off as though you haven’t actually read either. Have you?
because of its practical success
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
a mass party chosen by the working claases
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
Doubling life expectancies, providing free and high quality healthcare and education, low-cost or free housing, full employment, reaching full literacy, democratizing the economy, defeating the Nazis, and taking a semi-feudal backwater to the pinnacle of scientific and technological development, even reaching space in a few decades, is not “shooting the patient in the head.” None of your accusations make any sense.
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
No? Fascists, capitalists, and landlords are oppressed by socialists, but not the working classes. More fantasy on your part, it’s all vibes with you in the face of actual facts.
Have you read either Marx or Lenin?
A more important question is, did you think critically about what you read. And compare it to actually historical outcomes. Not just take it as dogma. Why do you think the Soviet people ultimately rejected the party Etc. At least symbolically. Why did former vassal States often demolish former Soviet monuments. Did they not read enough Lenin. Or had they lived it.
Unlike the states built around Lenin’s ideology. I believe people should absolutely be allowed to read about opposed ideologies and even organize around them. If they reject you, generally that means you aren’t filling their needs or are being a net burden. Though I also generally reject the idea of, or need for the state entirely. Far too much concentration and corruption. Whether it’s technically left or right.
I did think critically about what I read, and it’s astounding how many predictions that they made came true. For instance the monopolisation of whole sectors of industries was a really specific prediction to make in Marx’ time when nearly every town had their own manufacturers but look at us today with the global food supply controlled by only a handful of corporations.
And the majority of its citizens did not reject the Soviet Union. It was dissolved against the will of the people. Why do you think the CPRF is the second largest political party still today? Why did other communist parties fare so well in the elections after the dissolution? Why did NATO need to systematically destroy Yugoslavia if the people largely disagreed with the system?
Also, I’m gonna be very honest with you here, your statements about Marx and Lenin when you clearly didn’t read them make you look rather silly. As an example, it is widely accepted that abandonment of vanguardism caused the collapse of the SU. So it was that in fact abandonment of Leninism caused it to the collapse. Vindicating it. If we’re talking about comparisons to historical outcomes… And his view on the “free press” still hold up today, in particular when viewed from the side opposing the gaza genocide.
Leninism is the only noncapitalist ideology actually practiced, so I wouldn’t really call it failed. China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and Venezuela are the most prominent examples of course.
I can only recommend, once again, Comrade Cowbees introductory reading list. In particular Marx as viewed by Lenin himself.
That’s a lot of words to say “no.”
Lenin was a militant revolutionary that thought he could ignore Marx’s slow natural social evolution to communism
Huh, I never thought I’d encounter an actual Menshevik on Lemmy.
Please tell me through materialist historical analysis: without a strong vanguard party pushing for rapid collectivization in 1929 in pursuit of industrialization, and the rapid industrialization (15% GDP growth per year) between 1929 and 1941, what would have happened to all peoples standing between Berlin and the Urals?
Nah, they chose it because the ccTLD along with few others had been free for a long time. I was there when lemmy was just a few months old.
Someone made up these reference about marx/lenin claim and was perfect for wankies to circle jerk and the tankies didn’t refute it or went along with it, so it stuck.
Before that the free domains were mostly used for spam/phishing (because it was free), some called it machine learning, my links, my library and so on.
https://dev.to/bauripalash/lets-get-your-own-free-domain-5f16
Marxist Leninist
Maoist Lemmy
They use it to mean Marxist Leninism, although it also does mean Machine Learning and Mali
Moron liberation
Yep. I made an account there. Got banned for having an opinion that was in direct conflict with the propaganda shattered there.
I’ve got an ml account too, but at the time I think world was normal. I think world has also gone the Reich way.
there some .ml accounts that just talking about tech, i assume that what it is originally for, but it was co-opting by hard left politics at some point.
i’m a leftist and have an ml acct. but it’s like there is no engagement or linking or such - i dunno. i’m a newb.
You’d be hard pressed to find many on the fediverse that aren’t some flavor of leftist.
But yes. A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones for the same reasons ml were generally blocked and banned from similar sites in the past. Which ironically led to the start of Lemmy and the link aggregation portion of the fediverse in the first place.
Depends if you consider liberals to be leftists.
No, it does not. That’s just a popular way for MLs to disregard any opinion they don’t like. “Liberal” is to online MLs as “woke” is to conservatives. The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category and that’s not even arguing about whether social democrats and democratic socialists count.
Just so you know Brain is a rage baiter.
Yes. It does. Just because you like the left wing ascetic and want free healthcare doesn’t mean you’re not a liberal, and that describes a lot of people here.
The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category
You mean terminally online wannabe leftists who haven’t read theory or engaged in organizing while they regurgitate CIA propaganda?
Lmao. Are you gatekeeping being a leftist?
You say that as if it’s a bad thing
I’m differentiating between online “anarchists, socialists and communists” and the real deal. I had an anarchist on Lemmy the other day tell me that they don’t think class analysis is important.
Like clockwork, here’s one now. And he plays a reverse card like this is Uno and not an intellectual exchange.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword that approximates conservatives alleging “woke” and they’re always baffled that people outside their echo chamber don’t immediately concede the point. Like they just made the first move in a game of chess and legitimately think it’s checkmate.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword
If you really wanna get informed about it, Gabriel Rockhill literally just published in Iskra Books an extensive analysis of the ways the US State Propaganda Apparatus affects media, arts, political organizing… There are literal entire books written about it if you wanna get educated.
A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones
Last time I checked, infosec.pub was the only instance of any nontrivial size (319 users / month) that was defederated from lemmy.ml.
There’s a push recently on lemmy to make people think that .ml instance is unpopular, it’s user wrong and you should leave it or be ostracized.
This is the nth post about it I’ve seen in the past few months.
I haven’t noticed a recent uptick myself, but the usual suspects have been pushing that narrative for years.
What an absolutely ridiculous position
I got banned from .ml because I didn’t agree when they claimed that North Korea is democratic.
So yeah, stay well clear of that place lol
I once had a “dialog” with people there who wanted a whole country wiped out.
Then, they were banned for that.
Oh, wait, not they were banned… I was banned for not agreeing.
You’re lucky that .worlders are too lazy and stupid to actually check your mod history, lol.
I’ve been banned from a few ml because I rightly called Stalin a monster
I believe I have the honour of wearing the same medal :)
🤜🤛
Wait seriously?? I just joined BC dbzer0 went all AI obsessed. I hadn’t seen that much tankie shit on .ml yet… Where tf are the anarchists on Lemmy?
I’m an anarchist and I use .ml
Lol good
Real champions of democracy over there at .ml when they ban anyone who doesn’t conform to their echo chamber :)
I disagree with people on .ml all the time, skill issue lol
You’re legitimately encouraging them. Their brand of communism doesn’t involve elections
I was banned for calling someone a hotdog
Agreed, there are a lot of ridiculous positions over on .ml
“No U!”
what did i do
“Ignore dissenting opinions, shun users from the bad place, run away from the scary wrongthink”
“This echo chamber is censoring the opinions of everyone who disagrees!”
I disagree with people on .ml regularly and I’m not banned, skill issue and/or unforgivable opinions
🪞
No u
Hi guys
Fuck! So .ml is not abbreviation for “Monster Lovers”?
I call them mega losers
Hell yeah dude, you’re 12
No but we can make it mean that 😎
just a different type of monsters!
