Recommended reading: “Bi: Notes for a Bisexual Revolution”, by Shiri Eisner
Heteropatriarchal system
My current girlfriend is cool with it, but she’s absolutely fantastic about pretty much everything.
One of my exs on the other hand was a bit more aggressive and weird about it. She had a lot of toxic masculinity beliefs going on.
The real issue I have is that a lot of them think its hot, along with some of the other things I may have been into at one point. It’s a bit of a struggle to explain that I’m not asking for more, I’m just being transparent to avoid a potential bombshell being dropped in the future. I don’t have the energy for a polycule, to bother with a third, or anything in the lifestyle anymore.
Ive said it once, Ive said it a thousand times. No one pushes toxic masculinity like women do.
Fucking a twink is the manliness thing a man can do and if anyone wants to disagree with that I’ll fuck you too and I’m straight as fuck.
Reminds me of this stand up bit.
I just want to fuck a bloke, man
Been looking for this recently. Thank you!
I’m sorry, but you are completely wrong
;)
Twinks are feminine, so fucking a twink is also feminine and that’s gay. The manliest thing you can do is fuck the manliest guy you can find.
Coincidentally, that is also what you should do on your first day in prison. Or so they told me, I dunno
EDIT: Wait… was it beat OFF the manliest guy or beat UP? Hmmm… doesn’t matter. Everybody liked me after anyway.
Rape jokes (incarcerated or free it’s the same) getting upvoted… what a weird timeline.
Where’s the rape joke? I understand that most jokes involving prison and sex are rape jokes, but that one doesn’t seem to be. The writer gave handjobs, and everybody liked him after. Sounds like a fun, consensual time.
Do you really want me to spell it out? Okay.
Prison rape is never funny. It’s traumatic, violent, and life destroying.
Giving hand jobs to potential rapists in order to appease them in advance is neither consentual nor funny.
Sea-lioning replies justifying rape will be blocked.
Edit: @SethTaylor@lemmy.world I am so sorry this happened to you. I also understand dark humor can be a helpful relief. I hope you get the support you need.
What’s the fuck is ‘sea-lioning’?
“Sea-lioning” is a way of arguing in bad faith; specifically, asking for evidence or feigning ignorance every time the opposing party makes a claim, regardless of how trivial said claim is.
Nobody knows what BonkTheBonkTheAnnoyed thinks sea-lioning has to do with anything though.
I’m just saying: as a guy, this is not the only double standard, and not the only thing that people see as “you did it once so you’re $thing forever” that guys go through.
It’s probably one of the most notable though.
As men, we deal with a lot of judgemental shit and we’re expected to deal with it “like a man”… Whatever the fuck that means.
Another good example of this is crying. If you have a mental breakdown and fall into a crying fit, people will brand you as a cry baby or some shit, and that will stay with you for a long ass time.
There’s so much more. I don’t have time to think of, nor detail any of it. Any fellas that have examples, I invite you too add them in reply. Ladies, you can too. And anyone else can, honestly; let’s not forget our non-binary family.
I’ve had two relationships with women immediately go downhill after I cried in front of them. It was like someone flipped a switch and turned off any physical attraction they had to me.
I’ve discovered that emotional availability means you’re available to mirror her emotions. If she’s mad, you better get mad. If she’s sad, you better get sad.
Yes! We need a translator because what many of them say is not what they actually mean. I kept being told I was emotionally unavailable. So I started opening up more, which killed the attraction pretty quickly. What they meant was that they wanted me to listen to them and react in a way which implied I felt their feelings. Most women definitely DO NOT want a man who is in touch with his emotions or is “emotionally available.” They want to feel emotionally validated.
Conversation about this can be helpful with the right person. I felt rather one sided in the emotional validation in my relationship. We had a long emotional talk about it and things are better now.
I’ve had two relationships with women immediately go downhill after I cried in front of them. It was like someone flipped a switch and turned off any physical attraction they had to me.
Can absolutely confirm this, myself, on a personal level.
Never let them see you genuinely vulnerable unless you want to drive them away, or want that to be weaponized against you at some point in the future. Sometimes even both, but never neither.
Only ever provide curated vulnerabilities that offer of themselves no true vulnerability, but satisfies any desire they may have to see vulnerability in you. Like being distressed at the sight of an unknown dead dog on the side of the road, for example. Clean, simple, controllable, and superficial.
Violate this tenet at your own psychological risk.
I’ll be honest, I can’t imagine not being able to cry in front of my partner. It sounds depressive.
It sounds depressive.
It’s how “toxic masculinity” is forced upon men against their will.
Do we want to be sensitive and vulnerable? Sure!
Do we want partners that can accept that sensitivity and vulnerability? Of course!!But when the vast majority of women do not do as they say, or say as they do, the calculus becomes massively brutal and clear-cut: either cram that shit down to where it will never see the light of day, or see it emotionally/sexually revolt our partner and possibly even make them leave.
TBH I think “toxic masculinity” is a shitty term for the concept. It feels like calling forced female gender roles “toxic femininity”.
Yes! It’s intentionally used to invoke blame. Foremost by implying that some list of bad behaviours is only or primarily displayed by men, and secondly by implying that it is the fault of men (often read as all men) when they exhibit these behaviours. I would much rather we just call it toxic behaviour. Both sexes are capable of violence, jealousy, etc. “Toxic masculinity” merely ensures half of the people one is speaking to switch off and might even take the opposite side of the discussion because it’s really offensive.
It sounds depressing because it is.
This is the way of things.
I’m not saying it’s right, just, or how it should be, but in my experience, yes, this.
I’m not saying it’s right, just, or how it should be,
What makes it infinitely more worse is that almost all women fully and absolutely deny this happens, even when behaving exactly like this.
It’s why such near-ubiquitous behaviour - and women’s hypocritical denial of its existence - is widely documented within both redpill and blackpill writings, and is one of the core reasonings behind MGTOW.
Such overwhelmingly predictable behaviours are what make those philosophies so devastatingly effective and compelling long before anything even mildly misogynistic crops up… after all, facts and evidence that survive tests of disproof speak volumes. These philosophies would have no reason to exist if behaviours and double standards like this weren’t everywhere, and all it takes for a man to see them properly is for their societal brainwashing to be disrupted.
Those women need to grow up.
If you have a mental breakdown and fall into a crying fit, people will brand you as a cry baby or some shit, and that will stay with you for a long ass time.
I’m not opposed to crying. But if you cry in public or mixed company, I will judge the shit out of you regardless of gender. Have your mental breakdown with people who actually care about you - not with your coworkers at the TGI Fridays.
my nephew was murdered, I helped raise him as a teenager while my brother was in the military. I cried in front of my “friends” and they judged me. They are no longer my friends. Terrible people. just like you
I’m glad you were able to rid yourself of those clearly toxic people.
I’m sorry that it took that event to figure out that they’re not worth having as friends.
I hope you are doing better after all of that.
Sincerely, ·some random dude on the Internet.
have your mental breakdown
You defeated your own point
?
“If any of my friends are stressed and pushed to the breaking point, they need to schedule their mental breakdown in advance for a place and time when I am not around so they don’t inconvenience me.”
That’s more or less what you sound like
I have no problem with my friends being pushed to the breaking point and leaning on me. They just shouldn’t break down sobbing in a public place. If they did so, I would quickly escort them out of said public place, like I would a crying baby, so as not to bother everyone else there with their personal problems.
It is clear that, despite the downvotes, most of society agrees with me based on the infrequency with which I see people crying in public. They are doing what is reasonable and pro-social by keeping it in until they are no longer in public. And I very much appreciate their courteousness and self restraint. They are making the world a better place.
I’m glad I’m not your friend.
I’m glad I’m not your friend too, if you plan to break down in the TGI Fridays. Grow up.
Who the fuck plans a mental breakdown? Take that shit off my schedule damn.
Grow up.
Wild thing to say after expressing one of the most childish opinions I’ve ever seen.
I’ll make sure that next time a loved one dies I’m not in public!! Just because some dude finds it uncomfortable to see other people be sad or upset. I’ll call my mom now, let her know she can only die when I’m at home in private.
I think my favourite part was “planning to have a mental breakdown” as if that’s something that people plan.
Like, yeah, let me just check my calendar for the day. Yeah, I’ve got lunch with Josh at 12:30, sales meeting at 2:00, mental breakdown at 3:00, panic attack at 6:00. Man, my day is packed!
deleted by creator
Some absolute gem of a human being decided to express their opinion that people shouldn’t be out in public if they’re “planning to have a mental breakdown” because it’s so embarrassing for everyone around them to be seen having to comfort a friend who is going through a hard time.
Understandable downvote count
While I there is a kernel of truth about the whole gay men stereotype I can’t say I ever met a girl who would date or dumped a guy if she learned he had a bi/gay phase. The only thing that comes close was the guy who got dumped cause he cheated on his gf with her gay best friend.
Hell I had a girl actually try to hook up with me because she heard a rumor I did something with a twink (I hadn’t) and wanted set up some weird love triangle with her bi twink friend. I backed away from that one cause it was clear the guy crushed bad for her and there was no way that relationship was going to end with everyone walking away content.
Maybe being gay is a weakness. If a woman wants a strong husband, is that regressive?
Maybe being gay is a weakness.
Lol at you trying to frame blatant homophobia as an “innocent” question. Do you also do birthdays you fucking clown.
If a woman wants a strong husband, is that regressive ?
“If someone doesn’t want to date outside their race, is that regressive?”
If your reasoning for not being attracted to someone, is because what they are makes them seen as “inferior” by bad people, you are a bad person yourself.
Ancient Spartan warriors engaged in homosexual behavior does that make them weak?
Lol gym bros are some of the gayest fucking straight people you’ll ever meet, but gay = weak tooootally. You’re funny
"I’m a progressive but I would never date a woman who’s not down to raise me three kids, clean, cook, shop, clean, never drinks, smokes. She mustn’t been ran through. Also she has to satisfy me every time I want, without having the expectations of she receiving it back, a human fuck puppet of sorts, also she has to keep pretty, sexy, lingerie, she has to keep fit, no tattoos. And also I want her to sign a prenup, she wasn’t there when I earned everything I have, she don’t get to keep half of nothing after we divorce. Also she has to be content with me fucking somebody younger on the side when her tits start to sag or gets crows feet. Also she has to fear god but first to fear me, also she can’t be black or brown, also… also… also… "
Also this is not a joke, this is how I’ve been raised and this is what my entourage of friends all push and strive for. I myself have broken from these traditional values inflicted by society and parents, but I will never forget how men sit down at the table and women are there only to serve.
They can fuck whoever they want, but don’t be homophobic about it
If that’s how they view men, then yes.
Women having freedom is a weakness. If a man is wants a slave, is that regressive?
Attention addict says edgy things for attention.
Fun fact: back in Roman times, it was manly to fuck a twink. Being fucked by another man made you a woman (in their eyes, women were inferior in every aspect). I suppose something similar happened in Greece for a good while
Jim Jeffries talked about this topic in his new Netflix special that came out last week.
Yes, that was an episode of Insecure.
good news, those red flags are getting out of your way.
better then gone than polluting your potential partner pool.
taking the post at plain value, it would be a lot cooler if less people were homophobic against bi men. i dont want all the assholes to stay away from me, i want the to be decent people.
So just throw gay men under the bus? Because this whole thing is just homophobia.
Just ask a friend or family member for attention instead of doing this shit.
Ofc a lesbian would be a fucking bitch. Try to shut your mouth next time your group is ignored when phobia against it is the subject of the conversation.
If you won’t, then shut your fucking mouth now.
I love white people. Let’s see how long it takes to ban me from Lemmy
Btw I like black people too. You can say I’m a people lover or whatever
I always notice that the women that jump in and out of lesbian and straight relationships. Are usually slutty skanks. Just my personal experience.
It makes me bifurious
I chuckled under my breath
I exhaled a little more air than usual through my nose
I smiled but my breathing remained unchanged
How dare you
Bread makes you fat?!
At least your not bifurcated.
It’s definitely a thing but i doubt it’s progressive women who are perpetuating it.
if they do that, they aren’t really “progressive”.
IME of having dated mostly progressive women… they are the ones perpetuating it the most while shouting in public that they aren’t doing that. Or that they can’t be biased because they are women and therefore nothing they think is wrong… only men can be homophobic in their minds.
That sucks, I’m sorry to hear that.
Hopefully your experience is merely anecdotal. I’d need to have some numbers or a study before I change my mind personally though
Love seeing progressive people dismiss the experiences of men
Keep up the bigoted work soldier
Huh? I didn’t dismiss either OP’s or the other commenters’s experience.
But I’m not going to jump to conclusions blindly at your say-so or he-said-she-said or your insults, because when you look at statistics: consistently, across a decade, across all age groups, women are far more supportive of LGBT folks, even the T in the UK (TERF Island).
I know this is a popular go-to thought terminating cliche for “bothsidesbad” type people, but beyond empathizing, what do you expect me to do exactly?
I am sorry to hear you had shitty experiences with progressive women. I had only good experiences with women period, even those on the older side, and I’m a trans woman in the UK. It’s your word against mine unless we have studies and data and statistics, and unless you can demonstrate me some to support an actual argument, this conversation is pointless.
If you have no such data, then at least pose a hypothetical, proposes a mechanical explanation, suggest methodological flaws in existing data, but don’t expect the world to adjust to your experiences or opinions.
You have no self reflection abilities
Aight, so you are just trolling by saying random words with no meaning or relevance. Shouldn’t you be called smoothestsapphic instead because you’re a fucking smooth brain?
Reflect on that and grow the fuck up and speak like an adult.
You trolling and then dismissing me when I tell you to self reflect is funnier than you’ll realize.
They didn’t claim that. They said even progressive women will leave you, meaning they have that issue with all the usual suspects, but also progressive women.
But it feels odd to single them out rather than who would really perpetuate.
You’re right, the difference is that I’m reading it in bad faith and you’re reading it in good faith.
doesn’t count as a true Scotsman fallacy if I assume they aren’t really progressive.
but you can’t be progressive if you have an issue with queer people or anyone bending gender boundaries.
Okay, but are you banned from progressivism if you’re not into them sexually?
That’s a hell of an onus. Like, you literally need to work yourself up to being horny for “anyone bending gender boundaries” or you’re out?
No, but you’re a hypocrite.
Why would you be? You can be absolutely aware of the social patterns imposed on you, including those that are discriminatory or unfair, and still be subject to their effects.
Humans build a lot of their psyche by socializing. From aesthetic preference to sexual arousal or choices of flavor and texture for food. You’re not a hypocrite for not liking spicy food growing up in a culture with milder tastes and you’re not a hypocrite for finding traditional gendered aesthetics attractive after growing up in a culture that reinforced them at you at every turn.
You’re a hypocrite if you find those distasteful or exploitative and still perpetuate them forward to your kids, but even if you don’t, you’re not the only influence they have.
See, that’s why this is a bit of a bummer. This fiction on leftist circles that you can change a deeply ingrained societal pattern overnight or you’re a failure or a hypocrite is not just unrealistic, it’s kind of ignorant and mean spirited. You should be concerned with not making things worse and moving them in the right direction, but you shouldn’t always take the maximalist approach and assume you’re responsible for enforcing overnight radical change.
That’s how right wingers keep setting up their dumb absurdity checks. They just dare progressives to go maximal on every stupid detail and then point at it and call it a lack of common sense. You can recognize a consequence of inequality without enforcing a complete solution instantly. Change takes time, even on an individual level.
No obviously not. I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks for instance, or fat people, or dumb people or overly outdoorsy folks or a right-winger or a religious person or anyone under 5’10". I’ll happily stand to defend all those folks rights and I’ll stand by them hand in hand in solidarity, we just won’t fuck.
This is ok. This is normal. When it comes to personal association, especially sexual, freedom of association - is a core tenet of any libertarian socially progressive ideology worth it’s salt. And that’s the kind of progressive I’m down for.
You know, I was pretty assured on my line of reasoning here until I read “I wouldn’t date black or Asian folks” and… eeeeh, maybe there’s room for nuance here.
In my defense, I’ll say it’s the way of putting it that feels icky more than the sentiment. But still. Kinda ew. Don’t know if this was a Socratic, reverse psychology thing, but if so, well played.
It’s both really, I actually do hold that viewpoint as described in the original comment, but I also wanted to say it in a way that conveyed why some folks might be made uncomfortable by rhetoric like that.
I definitely agree it’s how you say it - but also where and when and how much you say it.
I think such preferences are fine obviously, but I’d question the motives of anyone who goes around claiming that often and considers it a large part of their identity. Context is everything in the end.
Well, yeah, but that’s the point. It’s “I’m not into that”, as opposed to “I wouldn’t date X type of people”. The point is you can not be into things without it being a political statement. Even if your political line of choice tends to favor a particular aesthetic.
you aren’t obligated to be attracted to anyone.
but if you have a rule that intentionally discriminates someone, then sort of. there’s some work for them to do internally.
Man, that’s even more confused. So you can be heteronormatively horny, but only as long as you acknowledge the possibility of boning outside your comfort zone? If gender nonconforming sex happens in the hypothetical woods does anybody hear it?
Honestly, that’d be kinda funny if it wasn’t such a depressing proxy for leftist purity tests and frequent inability to accept any intermediate states between utopian idealized outcomes and right wing dystopia.
If gender nonconforming sex happens in the hypothetical woods does anybody hear it?
That’s a BrandNewSentence if I’ve ever seen any.
There’s degrees to everything, though. There’s plenty of traits I think are perfectly okay for people to have, but that I’m still not looking for in a partner. So I guess I probably also fail your purity test.
I’m in my mid thirties, and I’m a bi woman who tends to go for bi men. I was once chatting about one of my exes with my dad and same aged stepsister, when she expressed deep surprise that I would be willing to date a man who had dated a man. My dad agreed, which is par for the course, but I could not for the life of me get a believable answer from my stepsister as to why that would be a dealbreaker.
She had been part of the GSA in one of the most progressive towns in America and was at that time in first cohort of women to join a previously men-only fraternity at her college, so she definitely falls under the progressive umbrella.
I literally can’t think of a reason except for donating blood, but that wasn’t it.
It may be a byproduct of some dating issues from before her time dating that got passed down to her. Namely, that lots of gay men were in the closet, and ended up leaving their wife/girlfriend when they came out. And that could have carried through to women thinking it was that, because it’s easier to think the person leaving you doesn’t want women, not just doesn’t want you.
Hopefully that mentality just disappears on its own after awhile. I think it’s already on its way out.
I mean you kinda said the reason yourself: “[she] join[ed] a previously men-only fraternity at her college”. Of course I’m only speculating.
The people she surrounded herself with probably thought that way and thus she thought that way. Most people do not think critically about their beliefs very much, yes even most progressives are just progressives because of the people around them.
Tbh, the fraternity was pretty inclusive. It wasn’t required that they go coed, they just decided to. I do wonder what she’s like now that she’s a lot further removed from her hometown, but I know she’s at least still heavily anti-trump.
So, this woman is an asshole and you big brained your way to blaming men for it??? lol Did you get a temp ban from Reddit or something?
Dude, you have got to stop taking all these ricochets. Not everything is a point to tally in the war between mars and venus.
I literally can’t think of a reason except for donating blood, but that wasn’t it.
What is the correlation between donating blood and being homophobic ?
For a long time (at least through the late 2010s and possibly still now, I’m no longer a good candidate to donate for other reasons), you couldn’t donate if you were a man who had sex with men (MSM) or if you had had sex with a MSM recently (6 months-2 years). Your own condom use was irrelevant.
I did once decide to stick with hands only with someone because I had an appointment to donate blood later that week. My stepsister wasn’t aware of that restriction though and I can’t imagine it’s the presiding reason why a lot of even queer women aren’t interested in bi men, given the demographics of blood donation.
There are a lot of wild things that preclude you from donating blood depending on where you live though, including time spent in the UK during the mad cow disease spike, even if you were a vegan. I understand that blood donation organizations are working with such large numbers and such a small margin for error that they would rather exclude a thousand good candidates than let one bad candidate donate, but it ends up being extremely discriminatory. I looked for some recent numbers, and it is true that even today the majority of new HIV cases occur in MSM or people who have sex with MSM, but given how widespread HIV suppression treatment is (in the US), correct condom usage reduces that risk to nearly zero.
The FDA actually revised their donor rules for LGBT donors, so many blood donation places, the red cross for example, no longer have this restriction.
Gay and bi men are often excluded from donating due to higher HIV risk I believe.
