No future in Germany? Jobs, housing, finances: 20% of young Germans hope for better living conditions abroad. In the long term, emigration appeals to 41% of 14- to 29-year-olds, a new study finds.
Okay, hear me out. If a bunch of germans want to go to different countries and a bunch of people want to go to germany from different countries, you could just make immigration easier and allow a constant flow of people arround the eu. We already know international exchange programs are good for people, so im guessing moving to a new country also is. You get a new perspective, learn a new language, have to adjust to new conditions, etc, all really good things to learn in the long run.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
Of course there are also many other factors. Germany’s decision to prematurely shut down its nuclear reactors will go down in history as one of the worst political and strategic decisions in history. It caused electricity prices to skyrocket and has decimated Germany’s previously impressive manufacturing sectors. They also have cultural issues embracing technological efficiency improvements. Most government departments still run by fax machine (by law). Most paperwork must be handled physically. Most Germans still prefer cash. Etc.
Ultimately I agree with you directionally - provided Germany liberalises its immigration only for high earners. This has been the major contention. A very high number of immigrants are low or no skill, and cost the state an enormous amount. This is causing massive economic and social issues. If Germany halted all low/no skilled immigration, sentiment would improve for high skilled immigration. Young people might feel like the social contract were not being torn up.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration.
No, they want to get out before lying right-wing morons, their rich media allies and all the propaganda victims (pick which group you belong to, though I have my suspicion…) demolish the country in preparation for getting fascists into power again. Because some of us were actually awake in school.
There is basically nobody who leaves because of a high level of immigration. Its either people who welcome immigrants or ones that will fight tooth and nail to have immigrants everywhere but their country. They will try to get them deported but not leave their own country cause that very flawed logic itself also prevents them from assimilating to other cultures. The national budget on the other hand is fucked because of reckless and unbalanced spending rather than immigrants, spain for example functions because of immigrants. Look at the stark contrast between portugal and spain, one just “deals” with immigration, the other thrives with immigration. The economy is shit in every single country basically so you cant really blame it on immigrants when countries with 0%, 1% and 30% immigrant populations are being hit equally. For fucks sake theres a war in ukraine, gaza and iran, all of which contribute to this and all of which are completely unnecessary. The immigration crisis from syria is also kinda the wests fault but thats a different discussion. I cant really comment on such domestic issues cause i dont have that much insight but from what i hear, the social contract is mainly “failing”(putting that in quotes because you make it sound like theres a better alternative) in the areas of public transit and public builings, havent heard of very large problems with the healthcare other than overdiagnosis(this is something a german doctor friend said, once again not my own experience). Overdoagnosis being a problem where doctors follow precedures 1 to 1 and test for a million different things that dont really affect you and the treatment often causes more harm. Of course this is not about cancer and such but rarer, “less important” diseases.
The fax and nuclear reactors are were/are horrible decisions but i dont think thats something that would effect emmigration so directly. In general germany should modernise, but this is true for every sector in germany and also in general for every european country without the exception of like estonia.
As for the low/no skill argument, brother, you are either stupid af or racist. Most syrian immigrants(and others from the middle east and tbf the rest of the world) who came to europe used to have means and education. The ones who could escape syria often were the better off ones with companies and degrees. Its enough to spend like 2 seconds with any immigrant and all of them are doctors and entrepreneurs and whatever but they had to leave their life in the middle east cause they were escaping from a fucking war. Doctors licenses from the middle east are not valid in europe. I know nurses who sell doughnuts and doctors who had to redo their whole university education(6+ years) to be able to practition in europe. The only people spreading the “low skill” argument are people who are racists or the ones who believe and follow the racists.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration.
I’m pretty sure the demographic that thinks about going to other places is also the demographic that overwhelmingly does not have any issue with immigration.
Well I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey. You got any basis for what you claim or is this just 100% anecdotes, feelings, and a stringing-together of right-wing talking points?
I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey.
I read the article - which gives various reasons for dissatisfaction and issues for the youth - as those are the reasons people are dissatisfied and want to emigrate.
Reasons for dissatisfaction can be different from reasons for emigration. They might be a subset, a superset, or have no overlap whatsoever. I am also dissatisfied about certain things, but these things are no reason for me to leave the country. So what makes them leave? Is it immigration like the commenter suggested? Is it the rise of anti-immigrant political parties that threaten democracy? Is it both? Neither? Something else? The article does not say. Hell, one reason why people say “I want to emigrate” could be that they don’t know what the word means, or how the question was phrased together with the tendency of survey respondents to respond in the affirmative.
Ugh, where do you even get these talking points? They are all complete bullshit 🤦 Like I don’t even know where to start because they all completely mix up facts and imply completely wrong causations.
Is this what Elon’s propaganda outlet tells Americans about Germany these days?
Yo, a Pole here. Can you explain what the commenter misrepresented and what’s the reality in Germany? I am curious.
I am assuming that like in the rest of the Europe, everyone gets healthcare and education, and that jobless do get welfare, as well as sick people. I can also see that your senior numbers are growing compared to young, so more of the budgets goes to supplement the pension schemes?
(And I don’t think Germany needs skilled/unskilled migrants to fill in open positions, as Germany has what, 3M unemployed people that could be retrained for them)
Basically: The whole public sector is underfunded af and the system as a whole has been crumbling for years/decades. Young people don’t want to have children anymore, as the world is going to shit and you can barely make ends meet even if both parents are working full time. The median age is going up, more people are retiring, younger people are expected to pay ever increasing taxes and healthcare costs, while our politicians are, quite literally, telling us “All of this is your fault. You’ll need to work harder. 40h a week is not enough. We might also have to take away your healthcare. A wealth tax or any actual reform isn’t happening, btw. Get bent.”.
As far as that other persons comment goes: those are simply standard right-wing talking points. They are blaming immigrants/refugees for systemic issues, often while opposing any actual reform. If immigration is putting additional strain on the healthcare system, then you could a) kick out the migrants, b) help them find a foothold in Germany, give them work permits and turn them into tax payers, or c) change some of the systemic issues of our healthcare system (e.g. people with higher wages can opt-out of public healthcare and instead get, often cheaper, private healthcare plans while rich people without any income don’t have to pay into the system at all).
In the end, it just boils down to late stage capitalism, like anywhere else in the western world.
I’m not the other commenter, but as a German, I can try to answer from my subjective view. Given you asked about the other comment specifically, I guess I’ll quote and respond to that.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
Those are far-right and right-extremist views and talking points. While we do have issues in the mentioned areas, immigration as a cause is largely a scapegoat, certainly when voiced like here, as the sole or primary reason for systemic issues or injustices.
The OP article goes into reasons of why people are dissatisfied or want to emigrate. None of what they mention involves immigrants or immigration. So it certainly doesn’t seem to be a primary concern. Unfortunately, the article doesn’t link to the study itself, and the link to the German source article is broken (links to itself).
Of course there are also many other factors. Germany’s decision to prematurely shut down its nuclear reactors will go down in history as one of the worst political and strategic decisions in history. It caused electricity prices to skyrocket and has decimated Germany’s previously impressive manufacturing sectors. They also have cultural issues embracing technological efficiency improvements. Most government departments still run by fax machine (by law). Most paperwork must be handled physically. Most Germans still prefer cash. Etc.
Nuclear is vastly more expensive than renewables. Building a reactor takes a decade, and costs explode. I don’t think they’re a solution. We have systematic issues in our energy systems, some technical, some political. Nuclear is not it. Our transfer network does not keep up, and we determine energy prices by most costly provider in the mix, and we tax a lot, with different kinds of taxes.
I doubt “most run by fax by law” is still correct. Our government services are certainly not the most innovative, and it takes time, and fax is still part of some things, but it’s not that bad - at least no everywhere.
I don’t think that other people using cash is a primary issue for people wanting to emigrate. The points raised in the article are much more convincing.
Ultimately I agree with you directionally - provided Germany liberalises its immigration only for high earners. This has been the major contention. A very high number of immigrants are low or no skill, and cost the state an enormous amount. This is causing massive economic and social issues. If Germany halted all low/no skilled immigration, sentiment would improve for high skilled immigration. Young people might feel like the social contract were not being torn up.
Germany doesn’t need only “high earners”. The right wing will always scapegoat. They’re already making stuff up and misrepresenting. A different immigration system won’t stop that. If other systematic issues are not resolved, people will remain gullible to this, our of frustration. “High earners coming and taking our jobs” seems much more scary than “low income workers coming and taking those jobs”.
Did you actually read the original post? That is not at all what they said.
For example implying immigrants are the reason why social security budgets are tight or you can’t get an appointment with your GP is rediculous. The exact opposite is the case. Immigrants are mostly healthy adults that (after a while at least) pay more into social security then they will likely ever get out of it and definitly don’t clog up GP’s offices (on the contrary, they form a big part of the staff, nurses etc.). Old Germans on the other hand…
And the rest is similar BS that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Are you making a technical point of contention on a specific case, or broadly disagreeing? Germany’s social services are as expansive as they are expensive.
You are incorrect on all points and I refuse to believe you actually live in Europe. You write like an alien who’s only had access to 4chan and /r/redscarepod
Okay, hear me out. If a bunch of germans want to go to different countries and a bunch of people want to go to germany from different countries, you could just make immigration easier and allow a constant flow of people arround the eu. We already know international exchange programs are good for people, so im guessing moving to a new country also is. You get a new perspective, learn a new language, have to adjust to new conditions, etc, all really good things to learn in the long run.
No borders No nations Free migrations?
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
Of course there are also many other factors. Germany’s decision to prematurely shut down its nuclear reactors will go down in history as one of the worst political and strategic decisions in history. It caused electricity prices to skyrocket and has decimated Germany’s previously impressive manufacturing sectors. They also have cultural issues embracing technological efficiency improvements. Most government departments still run by fax machine (by law). Most paperwork must be handled physically. Most Germans still prefer cash. Etc.
Ultimately I agree with you directionally - provided Germany liberalises its immigration only for high earners. This has been the major contention. A very high number of immigrants are low or no skill, and cost the state an enormous amount. This is causing massive economic and social issues. If Germany halted all low/no skilled immigration, sentiment would improve for high skilled immigration. Young people might feel like the social contract were not being torn up.
No, they want to get out before lying right-wing morons, their rich media allies and all the propaganda victims (pick which group you belong to, though I have my suspicion…) demolish the country in preparation for getting fascists into power again. Because some of us were actually awake in school.
There is basically nobody who leaves because of a high level of immigration. Its either people who welcome immigrants or ones that will fight tooth and nail to have immigrants everywhere but their country. They will try to get them deported but not leave their own country cause that very flawed logic itself also prevents them from assimilating to other cultures. The national budget on the other hand is fucked because of reckless and unbalanced spending rather than immigrants, spain for example functions because of immigrants. Look at the stark contrast between portugal and spain, one just “deals” with immigration, the other thrives with immigration. The economy is shit in every single country basically so you cant really blame it on immigrants when countries with 0%, 1% and 30% immigrant populations are being hit equally. For fucks sake theres a war in ukraine, gaza and iran, all of which contribute to this and all of which are completely unnecessary. The immigration crisis from syria is also kinda the wests fault but thats a different discussion. I cant really comment on such domestic issues cause i dont have that much insight but from what i hear, the social contract is mainly “failing”(putting that in quotes because you make it sound like theres a better alternative) in the areas of public transit and public builings, havent heard of very large problems with the healthcare other than overdiagnosis(this is something a german doctor friend said, once again not my own experience). Overdoagnosis being a problem where doctors follow precedures 1 to 1 and test for a million different things that dont really affect you and the treatment often causes more harm. Of course this is not about cancer and such but rarer, “less important” diseases.
The fax and nuclear reactors are were/are horrible decisions but i dont think thats something that would effect emmigration so directly. In general germany should modernise, but this is true for every sector in germany and also in general for every european country without the exception of like estonia.
As for the low/no skill argument, brother, you are either stupid af or racist. Most syrian immigrants(and others from the middle east and tbf the rest of the world) who came to europe used to have means and education. The ones who could escape syria often were the better off ones with companies and degrees. Its enough to spend like 2 seconds with any immigrant and all of them are doctors and entrepreneurs and whatever but they had to leave their life in the middle east cause they were escaping from a fucking war. Doctors licenses from the middle east are not valid in europe. I know nurses who sell doughnuts and doctors who had to redo their whole university education(6+ years) to be able to practition in europe. The only people spreading the “low skill” argument are people who are racists or the ones who believe and follow the racists.
Maybe that’s because you don’t cite sources and your message is bullshit.
I’m pretty sure the demographic that thinks about going to other places is also the demographic that overwhelmingly does not have any issue with immigration.
As a German I need to tell you: nope. Nothing in your comment makes sense. Please don’t try to educate people about stuff you are clueless.
At least you are a good example for the Dunning Krüger effect.
Well I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey. You got any basis for what you claim or is this just 100% anecdotes, feelings, and a stringing-together of right-wing talking points?
I read the article - which gives various reasons for dissatisfaction and issues for the youth - as those are the reasons people are dissatisfied and want to emigrate.
Reasons for dissatisfaction can be different from reasons for emigration. They might be a subset, a superset, or have no overlap whatsoever. I am also dissatisfied about certain things, but these things are no reason for me to leave the country. So what makes them leave? Is it immigration like the commenter suggested? Is it the rise of anti-immigrant political parties that threaten democracy? Is it both? Neither? Something else? The article does not say. Hell, one reason why people say “I want to emigrate” could be that they don’t know what the word means, or how the question was phrased together with the tendency of survey respondents to respond in the affirmative.
Ugh, where do you even get these talking points? They are all complete bullshit 🤦 Like I don’t even know where to start because they all completely mix up facts and imply completely wrong causations.
Is this what Elon’s propaganda outlet tells Americans about Germany these days?
Yo, a Pole here. Can you explain what the commenter misrepresented and what’s the reality in Germany? I am curious.
I am assuming that like in the rest of the Europe, everyone gets healthcare and education, and that jobless do get welfare, as well as sick people. I can also see that your senior numbers are growing compared to young, so more of the budgets goes to supplement the pension schemes?
(And I don’t think Germany needs skilled/unskilled migrants to fill in open positions, as Germany has what, 3M unemployed people that could be retrained for them)
Basically: The whole public sector is underfunded af and the system as a whole has been crumbling for years/decades. Young people don’t want to have children anymore, as the world is going to shit and you can barely make ends meet even if both parents are working full time. The median age is going up, more people are retiring, younger people are expected to pay ever increasing taxes and healthcare costs, while our politicians are, quite literally, telling us “All of this is your fault. You’ll need to work harder. 40h a week is not enough. We might also have to take away your healthcare. A wealth tax or any actual reform isn’t happening, btw. Get bent.”.
As far as that other persons comment goes: those are simply standard right-wing talking points. They are blaming immigrants/refugees for systemic issues, often while opposing any actual reform. If immigration is putting additional strain on the healthcare system, then you could a) kick out the migrants, b) help them find a foothold in Germany, give them work permits and turn them into tax payers, or c) change some of the systemic issues of our healthcare system (e.g. people with higher wages can opt-out of public healthcare and instead get, often cheaper, private healthcare plans while rich people without any income don’t have to pay into the system at all).
In the end, it just boils down to late stage capitalism, like anywhere else in the western world.
I’m not the other commenter, but as a German, I can try to answer from my subjective view. Given you asked about the other comment specifically, I guess I’ll quote and respond to that.
Those are far-right and right-extremist views and talking points. While we do have issues in the mentioned areas, immigration as a cause is largely a scapegoat, certainly when voiced like here, as the sole or primary reason for systemic issues or injustices.
The OP article goes into reasons of why people are dissatisfied or want to emigrate. None of what they mention involves immigrants or immigration. So it certainly doesn’t seem to be a primary concern. Unfortunately, the article doesn’t link to the study itself, and the link to the German source article is broken (links to itself).
2025 32% new reactors should be built, 57% in favor of continued investment in other forms of renewable energy
Nuclear is vastly more expensive than renewables. Building a reactor takes a decade, and costs explode. I don’t think they’re a solution. We have systematic issues in our energy systems, some technical, some political. Nuclear is not it. Our transfer network does not keep up, and we determine energy prices by most costly provider in the mix, and we tax a lot, with different kinds of taxes.
I doubt “most run by fax by law” is still correct. Our government services are certainly not the most innovative, and it takes time, and fax is still part of some things, but it’s not that bad - at least no everywhere.
I don’t think that other people using cash is a primary issue for people wanting to emigrate. The points raised in the article are much more convincing.
Germany doesn’t need only “high earners”. The right wing will always scapegoat. They’re already making stuff up and misrepresenting. A different immigration system won’t stop that. If other systematic issues are not resolved, people will remain gullible to this, our of frustration. “High earners coming and taking our jobs” seems much more scary than “low income workers coming and taking those jobs”.
Did you actually read the original post? That is not at all what they said.
For example implying immigrants are the reason why social security budgets are tight or you can’t get an appointment with your GP is rediculous. The exact opposite is the case. Immigrants are mostly healthy adults that (after a while at least) pay more into social security then they will likely ever get out of it and definitly don’t clog up GP’s offices (on the contrary, they form a big part of the staff, nurses etc.). Old Germans on the other hand…
And the rest is similar BS that couldn’t be further from the truth.
This is patently false.
Are you making a technical point of contention on a specific case, or broadly disagreeing? Germany’s social services are as expansive as they are expensive.
You are incorrect on all points and I refuse to believe you actually live in Europe. You write like an alien who’s only had access to 4chan and /r/redscarepod
Do you actually know what you are talking about? Because apparently not 🤦