To put it into perspective, the USA is making the draft system automatic from the end of this year and there’s opposition to it since the current system is that the individual is registered via the Selective Service System (it’s put into the database when one gets a driver’s license for example). From their case, the American government’s argument is: “it saves money from military recruitment campaigns” which is a pile of horse shit.
I mean, there are European countries where the draft is normal and expected for men over 18 (Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Greece, Cyprus & Croatia) including both Norway & Switzerland (despite them NOT being EU members at all). And yes: Ukraine has the draft, since men ages from 18-60 cannot leave the country due to them being made to stay behind on fending off against Russia.
But there are also European countries where the draft is non-existent, remains dormant or abolished: France, Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, Belgium, Netherlands, Albania, Ireland or the United Kingdom. However, what would happen if your country’s government suddenly enacts an automatic register for conscription?
As in, your country’s government refers to a name list of guys who possess EU identity cards, driver’s licenses or passports verifying if they’re over 18 by putting their name on a database. Like this: your name refered from your EU identity card now put into a conscription register meaning you can be called up at any time when the circumstances deem it necessary, like all of that done behind everyone’s back.
Like this: your name refered from your EU identity card now put into a conscription register meaning you can be called up at any time
How is the call-up supposed to work? Will the government publish the list of names and hope that these people will show up? National identity card is not mandatory and drivers licenses and passports don’t list a postal address. The government would have to access residence registers, but then people may just deregister their residence once they suspect that letters would be sent out.
Due to Schengen agreement a call-up would require a more complex solution. Such solution doesn’t currently exist. Though, some EU states started working on it.
Please don’t link News Nation. They employ Bill “you can’t explain that” O’Reilly.
I’m a trans woman and I am legally recognized as a woman, but I’m not dumb enough to even think for a second that this will hold if this is going to happen. However, no. That’s my short answer. No.
The leaders of my country who openly despise me, openly debate taking away my rights, constantly destroy the lives of people I love around me, have the guts to turn around and ask me to go die for them?! No.
If somehow I know I am condemned no matter what I do to die fighting, then I’d rather be fighting against them than for them. And it doesn’t mean fighting for the opposite side. No. I’m not doing some campism shit or whatever. I’m just not dying in a fucking pointless war.
Basically what I’m saying is that if two dudes decide to rest the fate of the world on their little dick measuring contest, then I guess the allegations and bullshit stories about trans women are true because I’m out to chop some dicks off.
So currently, the draft system is not legally provisioned for in the US. It would require a law to be passed to reinstate a draft.
Right now there is just a list system for if that were to happen. This change is just making it so people are automatically put in to that list system, as supposed to having to manually do it them selves, arguably a good thing since it was already mandatory. Not registering for the selective service is a federal crime, and a lot of people have failed to register because they don’t know or simply forgot to.
It would probably be better to remove the selective service system all together, make it harder to reinstate a draft in the future. But if it is going to stick around and continue to be mandatory, it’s better it be an automatic system.
In general, there are basically no federal level “lists of all citizens”. The closest would be social security (national pension fund and elderly health insurance system) but even that doesn’t really work for identifying people or tracking them. it’s something people in the US have been very paranoid about for a long time.
Well, as a Finn, we already have that.
Every 17 year old male gets a letter telling them to show up at a time and a place, then they get interviewed and asked where you wish to go, a specific military unit, civil service or jail. They also get a health check up.
It gets worse: I’ve heard over in the US, failure to register under the current “Selective Service System” has a fine of $250,000 (~212,000€) plus 5 year imprisonment towards male US citizens, which is ridiculous if you ask me.
The US one doesn’t issue a letter, rather the information is pulled from existing records via other sources (i.e. drivers license) so that’s how they obtained your details on being registered onto a draft pool.
Also, how does society in Finland view the draft and what’s the public opinion regarding the Finnish government? I mean, do they think it’s worth fighting on behalf of the president’s (Stubb) interests?
When I turned 18 in the US, they sent a postcard with return postage paid that had 2 checkboxes. First check box was that you were signing up for the draft and the 2nd was that you wished to register to vote.
Check, check, back in the mailbox. Done.
I’ve always just assumed this wasnt automatic so they could confirm address and that you’re still alive.
Last time I checked the support for the mandatory military service was at over 80%, that was a year or so after the escalation of the Ukraine war. It might have come down from that, but pretty sure the vast majority still support it.
No one is going to fight for Stubb’s interests. No one is going to fight for Orpo’s interests. No one is going to fight to keep the government safe. Everyone is going to fight to defend our country, the land, the people. The way our system is set up is not to use the military to go abroad and slay dragons, as I’ve heard it put by someone, somewhere… Our military isn’t even called the army or military anymore, its Puolustusvoimat, defense forces. And here it actually means that, unlike in that one country on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. Our forces do take part in peace keeping operations and such but those are 100% volunteers, you have to actively want to go there, nobody will be forced to do that.
Also, a minor detail, even though the President is the commander-in-chief of the military, that will change if a war breaks out. That also happened in the past, the highest ranking military person will take over the duties of the CIC, President will continue with the civil duties etc.
Stubb will never have interests that involve fighting unless the country wants it.
I mean… Thats how it should be. The representatives should do what the people want. Not randomly attack Iran for weird reasons.
asked where you wish to go, a specific military unit, civil service or jail
Everyone is going to fight to defend our country, the land, the people.
Doesn’t check out. If everybody is so eager to defend “the country, the land, the people” why is there a mandatory draft and a jail fine for not participating?
-.-
*everyone who is willing to fight for their country will fight for the people, not the politicians.
Is that better?
Unlike the USA, it’s akin to “DROP BOMBS EVERYWHERE” (evident from the previous Iraq, Afghanistan wars & the current Iran war). From Bush, Obama, Biden and include Trump in the mix. Plus they have mercenaries accompanying them. The thing is, are both PMC’s & Mercs allowed to exist in Finland or are they forbidden?
The military or defense forces by definition is to defend the nation from adversaries (like that of Finland), but the US is abusing the hell out of it just to satisfy defense contractors (as they generate revenue from weapon sales), by orchestrating wars, does it even make sense to try and convince politicians to start wars just to sell arms?
Yeah the major difference is that the US forces fight to keep a global hegemony and the military industrial complex running.
The fight we have always been preparing for is to defend against a attack from russia. There was a funny thing that happened, a Finnish military person was being interviewed by a foreign media, the guy was explaining about our defenses on the east of the country. Then the reporter asked “what if the enemy comes from the west?” and the military guy replied “well, then the enemy has made a large flanking maneuver.”
America has been protected by two massive oceans, a friendly neighbor in the north and a weak neighbor in the south. For an American to go “defend” his country means to invade another country thousands and thousands of kilometers away.
Finland has been cursed with a 1300km long border with a maniac. For a Finn to go defend his country means that he is going to be in a trench that goes through a farm that was owned by his fellow citizen. Thats a completely different perspective and attitude.
Most of the time it’s under the guise of “enforcing democracy” which is BS! More on resource extraction, like how the Gulf War during the 90s was initiated because Kuwait has oil (which Bush has monopoly on since US oil tycoons are based there) which also involved Saudi Arabia or Qatar as belligerents in the conflict.
I mean the first Gulf War was initiated because Saddam attacked Kuwait lol. Out of all the wars the US has been involved since 1945, that was the least worst. Saddam needed to be kicked in the teeth and they should have finished the job back then, not leave it up to Junior to fuck up in the 2000s.
Eugh, I feel disgusted for having to mildly defend a US military action. Why’d you make me do this?!
Vietnam on the other hand, the US military used Agent Orange (lehtikuivausaine) against their enemy but left nasty consequences after the war: pregnant mothers giving birth to kids born with defects for instance. The US military is nothing but a political tool to bully whom they consider their adversary. During both the Iraq & Afghanistan wars, was Finland neutral (not involved) or were Finnish troops deployed there?
Depends, are we going to defend Ukraine and Europe against fascism, or are we going to be forced to repress people?
In either case, the answer should be one of anti-war: opposing imperialism and nationalism, in favour of liberation and internationalism.
The whole American registration system is strange and confusing to me. Americans need to sign up themselves for nearly everything government related?
I’m used to registration by the parents a few days aftee birth. After that the government keeps track of most things like being allowed to vote, draft, place of residence. In some countries they keep track of elligibility for benefits, healtcare related things, or taxes too. Of course a lot of these things are (semi-)automated, it saves a lot of work and expenses.
Yes, automatic enrollment of citizens into all sorts of things that are mandatory anyway isn’t weird, it’s what I’d call a functioning administration.
Having 54 governments masquerading as one will do that.
China is more like this actually. Citizenship is at the regional level.
That excuse doesn’t count.
Germany, Austria and Switzerland are all federal republics as well, with strong state governments in addition to the federal government, and they manage just fine.
Hell, moving between EU (not a federation!) countries seems to require less registrational duties (if you’re a working person i.e. have ‘equal status’) after registering the move with your own and host country’s governments…
Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are combined smaller than the U.S. in both land area and population. And this is important because the diversity in the population meant pushback against a national ID.
I really don’t think that its the size of the country or population that meant push back against a national ID. I’d argue it was the weird “rugged individualism” thing that Americans have, I mean just recently I was reading about how Americans were against postcodes and one of the reasons they mentioned was this attitude of individualism, anything the big scary government does is seen as a personal insult and a slippery slope towards some sort of authoritarian state.
Yes and part of that is how big this country is
Judging by how the boomers of the UK go mad for war time ephemera, and the vague belief that thing were better back then, I suspect there’d be decent support for it from that area of society.
Gen-X down, however, wouldn’t be too pleased.
Kind of a weird image to see because the USA’s draft system has been mandatory signup under threat of jailtime and that hasn’t changed for lifetimes, since 1917, and the only recent change is that it’s now automatic.
Well it’s called selective service now that the American populace saw how bullshit slavery for war is. If they tried to enact it it wouldn’t go well.
It was called already called that and used as such during the Vietnam War.
Wait when did they change it then?
The Selective Service Act of 1917.
Damn ok
