Spain should start by switching to it’s logical time-zone. But then, yes, please. Longer evenings much preferred.
What’s the “logical” time zone?
The one closer to Spanish solar time, or the one shared by most EU countries, which facilitates trade and cross-border cooperation?We don’t have our current time zone because of that. We have it because a fascist dictator wanted to be on the same time zone as Hitler.
And the logical timezone is of course GMT, the one closer to Spanish solar time. It’s been proven that it’s not healthy to be in a timezone that doesn’t correspond to your solar time, unless you adapt all the schedules to follow the sun.
Then adapt the schedules without making every cross-border interaction artificially messier
I will never understand the push to kill daylight savings. And of course it would be Spain that’s pushing for this a country where they’re not really affected by it, but they want to take it away for the entirety of Europe. There have been pretty conclusive studies that indicate that you should wake with the rise of the sun. Unfortunately our lives don’t work like that, you get up at 7:00 a.m. whatever the sun is doing, so I would prefer it if we kept 7:00 a.m. to be about the time the sun comes up. Why is that a controversial take?
It has measurable negative effects on health.
Not everyone gets up at 7 am? Probably not even the majority. At least over here elementary starts at 7:30 and most people have their kids in daycare by that time as well. Moreover, time zones are big - so what might be a sunrise at 7 for you might be, depending on the relative location, a sunrise at 7:30 (or 6:30).
This is also why this is so immensely complicated. For some EU countries winter time would be better, for others, summer time. While they are in the same time zone. If you let every country choose what time they will pick or whether or not they will keep daylight saving you’ll get a patchwork of relatively small countries all operating at different times. Imagine living in Luxemburg, it’s 5 pm, in Belgium it is 5, in France 4, in Germany 6, in the Netherlands 4 again, then Spain hits you with 6 and Austria salutes you at 5. Have fun with that.
Since nobody can agree on which time to keep I doubt it’ll lead to anything. By now I’ve kinda gotten used to it anyway.
Tell that to the people who lose an hours’ worth of pay every year to the companies that happily adjust their timecards in the fall and then all too conveniently forget to fix them in the spring.
Nobody agrees on which one is better but I’d say a majority agrees that sticking to one is better
That’s like saying we can’t agree if we want burgers or steak so let’s all have nothing instead
That’s exactly what it’s like, which is why I suspect you’ll all be enjoying a nice big slab of nothing.
I remember that at some point in the 90s or 2000s you could buy watches with beats time. A day was divided in 1000 beats and there where no timezones. So 300 beats could be breakfast for me and bedtime for you.
I think I would actually really like a global system like that.
That doesn’t really solve the problem, it’s just relabeling the existing system. The bigger issue is that over the course of a year we don’t change when we do things.
You’re expected to arrive at work at a particular time, at no point did they ever say oh it’s still dark at 7am feel free to come in an hour later. No business would ever do that, so they have to change the clocks so that 7:00 a.m. now happens later.
The whole decimalization and universal time thing would require businesses to make that accommodation. Which is not going to happen.
With a system like .beat (or internet time as it was also called), there are no timezones and there is no daylight savings time.
If we would use a system like that, I’m pretty sure stores in Barcelona would open at a different time than stores in Amsterdam, because the sunrise at different moments. Now we have the same timezone, because it works wel for trade, not because its the best local time.
Using the exact same time globally could fix that. We use the same time for meetings with people abroad but choose the time that fits when the sun rises
Meet in the middle, and be done with it. Instead of going back an hour this weekend. Go back a half hour, and just leave it there forever.
Yes, please, do it already!
It’s about time.
No. It’s one hour too early.
Not a minute too late!
While summer time is better for daylight after work, winter time is the one where at 12 the sun is at the highest point.
At least in Germany, there is no winter time. There is normal time (Normalzeit) and summer time (Sommerzeit).
“To kill me you must get up earlier, Spain!”
What’s preferred by Europeans, permanent standard time or permanent daylight time?
As a german, I’d prefer permanent daylight time, I want there to be longer light in the evening. I hate when during the winter months I leave the appartment when it is still dark outside and come back home when it’s already dusk.
That said, I can see why this wouldn’t work across the entire EU, Spain for example is already “an hour behind” in terms of daylight, because of their location, their DST means it’s probably light outside at 22:00
Fun fact, so is France Netherlands and Belgium. They should be on British time if the lines were drawn properly.
The reason they’re on German time? Nazis. They’re were switched to German time while occupied during WW2, and while debate raged afterward they ultimately stayed on German time.
I really don’t care, just stop the switching.
Depends which side of EU. Same time for Spain and Poland makes little sense.
Only if you care having daily events at the same time everywhere. For coordinating across countries it’s much easier to be all in the same timezones and just know that those to the east will wake, eat and so on earlier than those in the west, because there’s going to be differences anyway.
That’s my opinion after working internationally all my life.Summertime makes sense for both
Spain should be GMT though, it’s quite literally below Greenwich.
Almost half of France is west of Greenwich, let alone Spain…
Yeah, it freaking goes through the Pyrenees! The only reason we are CET is because our former dictator wanted to be buddies with evil Chaplin Germany.
We really should go with GMT/UTC
For me summer time (where we have light during the evening) is the best! Nothing comes even close to it
I mean, you could do it in winter when you actually need more daylight time… Or just go to work and come home in the dark and take vitamin D supplements all your life.
In the winter you come home in the dark anyway. Daylight saving does jack except make my morning even darker.
Oh, no - it’s not just making your morning darker! By making you wake up earlier in comparison to the natural rise of the sun, which shifts you farther outside your natural circadian rhythm than capitalism already does, you experience an effect similar to what people on the trailing edge of time zones experience, at least for a time. These include higher incidences of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and breast cancer. Oh, and increased rates of suicide.
…yay.
I struggle in summer DST. Because the sun sets later, I don’t get hungry untiil later, which triggers my tiredness later, which makes my eventual sleep shittier, and I’m more tired in the morning.
Fucks with farmers too.
And to think that we should technically be GMT instead of CET… You are proposing us to be GMT+2 forever haha.
I think scientific research is quite clear that a permanent standard / winter time is healthier and objectively the better choice.
Personally, I’d still prefer a permanent summer/ daylight saving time. During summer, when days are long, I don’t really care. But in winter it’s usually still dark when I start working and already dark when I finish. With permanent summer time, it might be slightly harder to get up in the morning, but I could at least get a bit of light in the afternoon.
Standard (brighter mornings) is better for health
Agreed.
In Iceland we have permanent Summer time and it’s great. We go to work in the dark in either case during winter but having some daylight until 4 or 5 makes a big difference.
It’s in the article
Indeed, 84 percent of the 6.4 million Europeans who participated in a 2018 European Commission public consultation on the matter said the bloc should put an end to daylight saving time.
Eh often that’s said just to mean end switching, without specifying which one to end up on.
Closest to solar time is the truth and it’s annoying that something else is even considered a discussion
Permanent no-time-change time
Ugh. People could benefit on learning to function without their “routines”. I say keep it. It’s a complete non-issue. I actually it’s kinda fun.
It is a health issue to get jetlag forced on you twice a year
And vaccines makes the frogs gay or whatever. One hour jetlag? Really?
Conservativism in a nutshell. Things should stay the way they are because they don’t bother me.
Conservatives hate daylight savings time though because they can never figure out how to change their clocks twice a year (they often claim it’s complicated). Nah. I think it’s fun because it makes you think about time, and can be a fun learning event each year for a kid.
Conservativism is a way of thinking, of which your comment is a textbook example for the reasons I mentioned. Doesn’t have to have anything to do with the policies of conservative parties (fwiw though, the ones in my country are strongly pro daylight savings because it benefits farmers, who generally lobby them).
Maybe at some point we abandon timezones all together… One can only hope…
Marvelous idea, let’s disregard well established language and time critical systems already relying on the existence of timezones that can’t easily be updated for… Being able to tell people your time without actually conveying information.
“Hey wanna play some videya” I ask my friends on another continent during noon “Sorry, its not quite dark yet but already too late for hideogame” -my friend, for whom the sun is still visible, but its a little bit too late, wishing there was a way to easily convey the fact that it is 21:00
Time zones may suck for programmers, but everyone who thinks even a little bit about human to human communication realizes how stupid it is. But I digress, were on lemmy; we dont do human to human communication often
we dont do human to human communication often
Apparently not. Why wouldn’t you just say, “sorry, going to sleep soon” in your example? How is saying it’s 21:00 local time critical to communicate that it’s too late for games? Why would that inherently communicate that? 21:00 is a pretty normal time for me to be playing games
And saying “let’s play at 06:00” still doesn’t make any sense because once again, 6 for me and for you is different
You should at least know where someone lives and you can do the conversion. Either way, maybe you would have an established way of communicating with a gaming mate or a guild or something, like only posting times in UTC for example. We have this already. 🙂
You mean that we already have a system in place, being UTC, for when timing is important where “lateness” is not important, like for a livestream, however a removal of timezones would make human to human interaction worse where “lateness” is important (basically everything between a small group of people). Like what happens if you dont know someone’s timezone like on a lemmy comment, go ahead is it 14:00 for you? Sorry I mean is it in the night? Sorry its winter, so night starts earlier. How long ago was the sunset so I can know how tired you are so we can sync up and develop a feeling/estimation on how how long we will play videojames.
Yes the sillyness of choosing videogames and live streams is chosen deliberately, because I, as a normal human being, do not give a shit about how time zone influences the stock market and their finances. I just want to quickly know for how long you’d be able to play without deliberately ask for that.
“Wanna play monopoly?” “Its 22:00” “An OK, how about some uno?”
The 22 immediately conveys me that a: you are tired and probably dont want to do math b: you aren’t gonna stick around for the 6h of a monopoly game c: if I do want to play monopoly, I can estimate how much earlier I need to ask next time
If the 2nd person said"its evening", it could’ve been anywhere from 16 to 20, and depending on the personal opinion of the second person, it could be from 18 to 22, good luck doing any planning
Or do you want to have to say that the sun is up but it is slightly too late for monopoly? Also what does late mean? If you generally go to bed at 20 because you have to wake up at 5 for work, even 18 is late; good luck explaining that to someone without being able to use numbers everyone understands similarly enough. (Remember: no time zones == 10, noon for me, could be midnight for you, however since we use the same numbe with different meanings, we can’t easily say shit)
That would imply everyone living in the same time zone wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, etc, where this is clearly not even close to being true. If it’s too late to start a monopoly game for you, you can just say so
Shops, schools etc should just have hours that make sense for the local solar time anyway
Sorry I may have worded it not good within my ramble. Yes you are correct in that not everyone has the same sleep schedule, but it doesn’t really matter does it? 12:00 is still 12:00, we know what we mean; this doesn’t work between countries (or the same like China if its big enough for different timezones (which like China intentionally adopted because of specifically this reason)). Since 12 for me and for you are different, we have to do a handshake of how what number means which can be avoided with time zones. I know that 03:00 is night for you (whoa I dont even need to know in which county in which country you live)
To go back to monopoly, since you also responded to that “Want to play monopoly” “No” Why? Too late? Not interested? And when you answer with “its too late” I dont know if its too late for anything, as it currently 15:00, or because its 11:00, and you have enough time to play one or two rounds of uno
Likewise the example another user used down below with traveling. If one usually wakes up at 06:00, one would have to look up, and calculate to what they have to change their alarm to go off at the approximately correct time, which will be ass for people traveling for work often
You seem to have missed at least part of my point. To keep with the monopoly example, you already can’t assume that it’s too late for anything or there’s time for a game of Uno, because people have different rhythms and there’s variance, so even if you know it’s 2300 for them it still doesn’t solve the problem, you are just making an assumption which may or may not be correct on any given day for any given person.
This was a pretty rambling comment and hard for me to follow, in all honesty.
I think if you ask someone to play Monopoly, you wouldn’t get a reply saying “it’s 22:00”, you’d get a reply saying “nah, I have to get to bed”, or “yes”. It’s not really an issue whether or not we have universal time or time zones. I don’t know anybody who would reply in that robotic way. But I don’t know your friends.
Anyway, because of the confusing structure of your comment, I’ll just ask: what is the problem you’re having and how do you propose to fix it? And why does the current system not work for you? I can’t decipher that from your comment, sorry.
Best link in the whole discussion.
Fun read, I appreciate how much effort people put into saying nah uh, I don’t want/like change…
I will continue hoping quietly.
You know the whole world isnt the USA, right?
You would think they do considering they are registered with a .uk instance. What does what they said have to do with America?
To be honest, that’s not the worst idea. It would have a ton of implications, but long term this would work fine.
It’s a really stupid idea because it robs the numbers of meaning. We already have UTC for transworld clarity. Abolishing time zones just complicates all of everyone’s daily life whilst making only a few things easier. It even complicates communication about what time it is in different time zones because you took the numerical offset away.
I don’t hope for this. Traveling to another country would really be weird, because you’d have to convert everything all the time while you’re there. Like, what should I set my alarm to in order to wake up when I usually wake up in the morning? Instead of just setting it to 6 am or whatever, like normal.
How would that work?
Easy, everyone just uses UTC (or what ever) now.
It’s not a technical problem, but good luck convincing people around the world to adopt it.
Time zones are fine as they are. They are less confusing than having 23:00 be close to midnight in one place, early morning in another and noon in another place. It would also result in many places either changing the date at random times or having a different date in the morning and in the evening.
I never said they weren’t.
I don’t get the downvotes. They abolished timezones in China (around 1950?) and 5 geographical timezones are just going on Beijing time and have been for a while.
Although I’m not sure if they still use “local time”, idk, and then it kind of defeats the purpose…They kinda do use local time anyway from what I know, yes
Let’s keep summer time, It’s already dark before 18, once we’ll switch to winter time it’ll be dark before 17. The benefit is that instead of going to work and starting to work when it’s dark ,we’ll go to work when it’s dark and start to work at dawn. Not worth-it
No one stops you from getting up 1h earlier in the morning.
Permanent summer time would force everyone to do it.You got down voted but no-one actually counters that argument.
Why should everyone be forced to get up earlier because some of the population want to? They can already do that!
And to people who say “mORe LiGhT iN tHe evEnINgS” - for most of us in Europe it’ll only buy you a few weeks at most and then it’ll be dark by the time you finish work/school anyway.
Most people don’t have much control over their working hours.
Which is exactly my point. Summer time forces me to get up 1h earlier than normal because I can’t choose to come to work an hour late.
But with normal time, you can always choose to live on “summer time” for yourself by getting up an hour early.
Because shifting schedules by an hour randomly in the middle of the year twice is physically damaging and bad for your health, that impacts you. And maybe it’s not so bad for you, you work shifting hours, no biggie. Try to imagine that you had that regular schedule and suddenly it changed, it did bother you, perhaps make decisions based on that.
If you can’t imagine anyone else having thoughts, feelings, or emotions different from yours, consider that when you’re crossing the street the day after daylight savings time, you’re being passed by people who didn’t get enough sleep and maybe they’re like you, but they might not be, and that could directly impact you too.
It’s such a simple small change to a weird tradition that has no more purpose in our modern world than the “moonlight lamps” of the US or the penny farthing. They may be historically important or interesting, but that doesn’t mean you should be forced to use them. Change can be scary but it’s gonna be ok, daylight savings time will inevitably end up the way of the funny big wheeled bike, it’s just a matter of when and how. You can always choose to wake up early all year round.
I feel like you’re agreeing with me but your comment is phrased like you’re disagreeing
And to add to that: It would make the winter mornings so, so much darker.
I don’t think many people consider how that would affect them.
Just get up like it would be summertime.
Standard time is objectively better for health. Brighter mornings is so much more important
Fuck bright mornings, I want some daylight to do shit outside after coming home from work.
Bring a flashlight and enjoy your health
Oh yes that splendid health of mine that’s greatly prospering from watching the nice daylight being wasted while I’m sitting at fucking work, where it doesn’t matter whether it’s daylight outside or not, very well knowing that it’s dark outside when I leave home to get there, just as it will be just dark outside when I get back for 4 months a fucking year just because a bunch of patronising arseholes are fiddling with the clock twice a year.
I could tell you where to shove that Flashlight of yours in order to enjoy it in a healthy way, but I don’t want to be as patronising as you and feel that if you’re so knowledgeable about health, you’ll figure that out all by yourself.
These people will happily give you scientific methods for enjoying it
There’s a large population where this has no meaning. The sun rises at 10 AM and sets at 1 PM in the winter here where I live. There’s nothing to gain for us, only problems and missed meetings and school mornings and extra stress on kids and parents having to adjust their sleeping routines days in advance. It sucks ass, absolutely not worth it even if we did live in the very specific latitudes where this is perfect. Down with daylight savings! ✊
Are you a polar bear? How can you survive with 3h of sunlight a day?
Imagine getting 3 hours of sunlight a day in winter. Where I live north of the Arctic circle we get none for many weeks every winter!
I feel your username is a clue about survival lol.
Vitamin D.
Also we get like 21h of sunlight during the summer so that’s pretty neat.
I’m not sure neat is the word I’d use to describe that hellish landscape, but might be a language issue… :)
You must be new to Lemmy, 3h of sunlight is way more than most of us basement dwellers get.
I don’t see why some people are so hung-up on this. We have much much bigger fish to fry.
It’s a good thing most things aren’t a single track queue then. Are democratic governments slow? Yes. Do they handle 1000’s of things in parallel? Also, yes.
Believe it or not, but not everything is a psyop to distract from the Epstein files.
Pick real time and let people adjust their schedules. It’s easier and the science backs it up.
Pick real time
And have to put up with Bill Maher? No thanks.
Solar time.
At the mere mention of changing the summer time, you get all bar and restaurant people shouting to not touch it.
But actually we’re in the wrong time zone too, so summer time is actually just having office hours from 07:00 to 15:00 solar time but with more lying.
On the other hand, if we had not saved daylight we would have probably ran out by now.
It’s “have run,” not “have ran.” Thanks for coming to my TURD Talk.
A lot of people have started using simple past tense for all perfect tenses lately, but I don’t like change, dangit.
i can make arguments for both cases;
PRO-SIMPLE FORM:
-
Perfect forms of verbs are redundant: Simple past tense doesn’t have an auxiliary verb anyway so you can already differentiate it from perfect or passive cases when you use it with have or be respectively.
-
Easier to learn one variation of each verb than two
PRO-PERFECT FORM:
- Redundancy in language is good, losing one part of a sentence due to noise, signal loss or damage to medium may be saved by a redundant part making communication more reliable.
but also:
- regular verbs already have identical simple and perfect forms
which kind of tips the scales I think. perfect forms are already inconsistent, and verbs with identical forms already prove there’s no significant loss in not having a distinct perfect form. I was gonna add “can be used alone and carry its own meaning (eg drunk)” as a bullet point in favor of perfect forms but regular verbs with no distinct perfect form can also be used alone and still carry the meaning (eg beloved)
so yeah I think distinct perfect forms are on their way out, long term.
-
Yeah I mostly learned English watching Cartoon Network, when it wasn’t with subtitles or dubbed. They basically started airing in the Netherlands and an entire generation learned English by watching cartoons after school.
This is now repeating with YouTube and teens watching a lot of English youtubers.
I miss those days, Dexter’s laboratory, Dragonball Z, two stupid dogs…
Beam me up Scotty!
I heard there’s more car crashes in the morning if you get rid of daylight savings time
I heard the opposite though
I heard a lot of things surrounding daylight savings, but I belive that it’s just bad for us.
