“Male loneliness epidemic” = “all lives matter.” Though counterintuitive, they both attempt to bring increased attention to men on an issue that is already universal. There is a loneliness epidemic conversation you could join.
It’s more like:
“All loneliness epidemic” == “All lives matter”.
You don’t like a particular demographic and then you invalidate their particular problems saying that everyone have them.
It’s exactly the same argumentation. We all know that really all lives matter, the same we know that people is more lonely in general. But the same it is a specific problem with US cops killing black people disproportionately compared with white people there is a problem with men being more lonely in relation with women.
It doesn’t mean that other genders are not lonely, same that “black lives matter” doesn’t mean that people from other skin colors don’t get killed. But there’s a specifically problem related with gender and race respectively that needs to be addressed.
“Male loneliness epidemic” = “all lives matter.”
I disagree, ALM is a whataboutism meant to distract from the BLM movement. There is no loneliness epidemic movement, so if some men want to get together and discuss how loneliness particularly affects them, good for them.
Sorry you’ve felt left out of the conversation. If you spend time in male-only spaces you’ll find they aren’t talking about it.
>It's not just about getting laid (though that's part of it.) >It's also about friends >But even in the "getting laid" part, it's moreso about a real emotional connection in conjunction with the sex, I believe they're called "relationships." >while some is just incels, it's also normal people >If we had more Third Spaces that aren't centered around booze and money, it'd go a long way to helping the issue >it's not just men.The “while some is just incels” in your code comment part had me for a while, genuinely made me think of programming
Yup. the sexual loneliness epidemic is easing up, because we’re all fighting back to ‘normal’. But ask most men this simple question: how many non-sexual friends do you have in your life that you communicate with more than once a week?
IDK about ‘loneliness epidemic’, but ‘lonely’ IS my normal.
I do communicate with some friends more than once a week, but none of them even live in the same city as I do.
That’s the hell of it, but if you feel lonely at a base level, I suggest you try to find or start community events. You’d be amazed how effective Meetup is.
I have health issues that get in the way of in-person-socializing.
I don’t really have a way to deal with that. I have my own issues, but I do fight past them to try being social whenever I can. The biggest thing I can say is to find groups who do voice & video chats more often.
Depends where you are, seems to be a pretty US-based thing. Here it is all weird stuff.
i think a simple “what do you feel right now” would stump half the population.
If they dont answer with the predifined “fine”
The predifined “fine” is either a real “i don’t know “ or “it’s too socially dangerous for me to say what I really feel “ imho
Or even “I think it would be nice to talk to you in more detail, but it’s really difficult to summarize my entire mental state in a short sentence, so to avoid you and I the headache, I’m just gonna say fine.”
Is it normal to talk to friends more than once a week? That seems like a strange standard imo. Even my besties and I touch base maybe once or twice a month at most, and see eachother once every 4 to 6 months.
That sounds normal to me, but it’s worth noting that when we were under Covid lockdown, I didn’t understand how so many people freaked out about it. I’ve always been sucky at social interactions and pretty much always felt lonely as a baseline. It’s like I’d been training for lockdown my entire life. Seeing others lose their minds trying to live the way I’ve always lived was quite awkward.
Which means for many people, your/my standards for social contact are way too infrequent. I don’t know what an average measurement would be, but it’s clear that our “normal” can’t be most people’s “normal.”
Is it normal to talk to friends more than once a week?
Yes. It’s very normal to talk to several friends per day, and to see several friends each week. Rotating through one’s universe of friends, that might mean that there are a few friends you talk to at least a few times per week, some that you talk to a few times per month, and a some that you talk to a few times per year. And maybe you actually meet up in person a few times so that you’re still seeing friends in person every week.
That level frequency isn’t necessary, but it’s kinda shocking to me that your comment suggests that you find it surprising that many other people are doing this.
I think that level of interaction might be normal in adolescence and even young adulthood, but by the time you’re working, living on your own, and maybe have a family I really don’t think most people talk to their friends that often.
I’m in my 40’s, and I have children. My wife and I both work full time jobs that require regular travel and responsibilities outside of normal business hours.
I have probably 5-10 chat threads in different apps that I maintain with different friend groups. Some are just stupid meme exchanges, but they’re also a regular way to keep in touch with people about their kids, jobs, families, hobbies, goals, etc. But I communicate with dozens of friends on any given day.
My mom also demands regular grandchild content on a constant feed so I actually keep in touch with my family better than when I didn’t have kids.
I have a standing neighborhood parent/kid meetup once a week where my kids get to play with their neighborhood friends while we parents hang out at some local restaurant. We text each other the day of to coordinate a place, and then maybe 3-5 of the families (out of a group of maybe 6-8 regulars and 2-4 fringe participants) will show up on any given week. This is on top of the occasional dinner party on the weekends. We don’t make it to every event, but we are averaging more than one meetup per week with our friends with kids near our kids’ ages.
I’m also friends with people at work. I have a standing monthly happy hour with work friends I’ve kept in touch with, even as people have taken different jobs or made other career changes.
I also do an annual camping trip in the summer with one group of friends, and an annual ski trip with another group of friends. It’s only once a year for each, but there’s also a lot of value in 48+ hour meetups, sitting around with downtime throughout, just catching up and talking around a fire or something.
My parents had church when they were my age. I don’t. But I still try to schedule regular things on the calendar to stay plugged into different groups. It’s important to me, and it didn’t come naturally, but these are things my friends and I implemented in our 30’s when socializing started requiring coordinating calendars. Especially once the friends’ wedding weekends dropped off and seeing out of town friends required coordination without an actual occasion to celebrate.
That’s awesome and it sounds like it works for you, but I suspect it isn’t the norm. I could only find data for 50+ year olds, and among them only 24% talk to friends daily. That seems about right for my adult friends group - I get the sense that a quarter of them are very social and the rest are too busy to socialize that often.
among them only 24% talk to friends daily
I think it’s fair to infer that a big chunk of the 76% are still talking to friends at least once a week, at least 1/7 as frequently as the 24%.
I don’t mean to say that talking to friends at least once a week is the only way to be friends, or that it represents a majority of friendships (although maybe it might be). The part of the original comment that got me to weigh in was the idea that speaking once a week with friends was unusual or strange. That, I think, underappreciates how it can be feasible and maybe even desirable to keep in more regular contact with multiple friends.
The rest of the breakdown is: 40% once a week, 36% once a month or less. I guess I fall into the latter bracket.
My parents had church when they were my age.
There’s the thing I think many of us have been missing. I expressed to my group of gamers that our multi-table Friday night one-shot group was our version of church before the pandemic broke out. We don’t have a community and we don’t trust the greater institutions, and it’s driving us mad because we are fundamentally social creatures. We need that time together in a shared experience. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing together, but it’s what we live for. Sports, church, board games, art, it doesn’t matter in specific. What matters is the community.
15% is still quite bad tbh
The fact they tried to write 15% off is what made me laugh the loudest. Not a “that’s actually funny”-laugh, just pure mockery at OP’s “well-meaning” take.
Takes 3.5% of the general population to start a revolution. Normies think 15% are ineffectual loners, or uniformly satisfied because their numbers are “so low”. They think these men are both scary, and a non-credible threat, un-worthy of even acknowlegement.
Meanwhile, a large number of “non-virgins” who think the same way as the worst in-cels are running the US into the ground. Sure, ignoring them is the right call.
For example, people say it’s hard to find a job in the Uk, while “only” 4% of people are unemployed here. That 4% is a looot of people. Now, sure, let’s say that some men don’t want to get married. But I doubt it’s anywhere near 15%
Its “only 4%” until its time to look at the benefits budget then suddenly its a “whopping 4%”
“Male loneliness epidemic” is about male friendships more than anything no?
That’s definitely one sense, and the one that’s actually an issue. But I’ve read enough headlines and yt subject lines to pick up on there also being some muddying of the waters with romantic female companionship. Or rather lack thereof as being a key part of the crisis.
Just to be clear, there is a loneliness epidemic: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
In the scientific literature, I found confirmation of what I was hearing. In recent years, about **one-in-two adults in America reported experiencing loneliness.**1-3 And that was before the COVID-19 pandemic cut off so many of us from friends, loved ones, and support systems, exacerbating loneliness and isolation.
Loneliness is far more than just a bad feeling—it harms both individual and societal health. It is associated with a greater risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety, and premature death. The mortality impact of being socially disconnected is similar to that caused by smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day,4 and even greater than that associated with obesity and physical inactivity. And the harmful consequences of a society that lacks social connection can be felt in our schools, workplaces, and civic organizations, where performance, productivity, and engagement are diminished.
Dunking on incels who equate loneliness with a lack of sex and ascribing the “male loneliness epidemic” to being a meme made up by chronically online social media users is a mistake.
Everyone is experiencing loneliness.
Just because women suffer in silence while some men turn to antisocial behavior doesn’t mean that this is a problem that’s fabricated or only affecting men.
If you’re resistant to believing that this is a real problem because the people making noise about it on social media are primarily men then you’re ignoring reality.
Imma make that 15.1%
people don’t go out anymore ok
Was at a nearly sold-out Ghost concert in Houston just last week. Had to wait in an enormous entrance line to get to the pool, the day before that. Grocery store is going to be slammed this weekend, because of all the Labor Day parties. Nearly got trampled in the park by a running club of what had to be a couple hundred people.
Damn shame nobody goes out anymore.
People still go out to events like concerts and holiday parties. Far fewer people casually go out to their local bars and coffee shops during the week. I’m pretty sure that’s empirical.
Far fewer people casually go out to their local bars and coffee shops during the week
Maybe in aggregate. But I can’t speak to that personally. My neighborhood bar is regularly slammed. There was a line around the block for some novelty tot bag at my local coffee shop.
Could just be a Houston phenomenon. But this insistence that nobody leaves the house anymore feels more like Internet dogma than fact.
what city are you in? im interested for honestly reasons
edit oh its huston thank you friend
But those 3.3 percent are really upset about it.
“premarital sex” also known as sex
yeah but it was a one night stand so you know it made them feel extra less lonely
Yea everyone knows as soon as you have sex once you never feel lonely again.
I mean… I’ve had sex and I never feel lonely.
Could also be because I’m severely introverted and probably autistic though…
Seems like a lot of incels really believe it though
Indeed, which may actually be the source of their problems, or at least one of them.
Yeah when they fixate on sex it generally results in a bunch of behaviors and personality traits that make them unpleasant to be around and often make other people (particularly women) dislike or even fear the idea of sex with them.
I also honestly think a lot of it comes down to homophobia. I think there’s a lot of closeted or Kinsey 3+ bi men that are prevented from being happy with a male partner and even more importantly it keeps straight men from pursuing platonically fulfilling emotional intimacy from other men. I often deal with sexual transference behaviors out of male patients (when I try to help them emotionally they develop sexual attraction) and it can be difficult to both find a male staff member to model appropriate nonsexual emotional intimacy to them and to get the patient to accept the healthier experience / teaching.
TLDR there’s a lot of things I would like to do to help solve the male loneliness epidemic because it’s a very real thing but I’m AFAB and NB at best and 90% of the work needs to be done by men helping other men, so I’m functionally helpless to do so.
In my experience (as in my classmates(, you couldn’t be more right.
“3.3% of men are virgin by age 30”
Cool! I am special
look ma’! I’m special!
look ma’! I’m special!
Yeah, totally! Getting my dick wet is precisely the kind of emotional and intellectual connection I’m missing! The penis is my data transfer cable.
The penis is my data transfer cable.
That could almost be a CAKE lyric
Maybe Avatar was onto something….
Well, crap… don’t have nearly enough hair for that…
TBF, they seem closely correlated. It seems unlikely (though not impossible) that you’ll find the emotional intimacy we expect from romantic relationships but won’t get any sex.
This is such a toxic mentality. If you can’t get emotional intimacy in a romantic relationship without sex then you have problems you need to work on.
Strongly disagree. I’ve met far too many young men that see sex as a means to an often self serving end. Sex is a means of expressing love towards another person, it’s not meant for self gratification. Seeing it that way is a recipe to have a lot of meaningless sex only to be left wondering why you feel so empty.
Theres a reason women generally don’t climax from being jackhammered or even from clitoral stimualtion in many situations. They’re coded for that emotional connection as a prerequisite for good sex. We are coded that way too but modern culture has painted that type of vulnerability as “unmanly”.
In my view, a strong emotional connection creates the necessary conditions for good sex. But you don’t need good sex to have a strong emotional connection.
Men can end their loneliness epidemic by getting their priorities straight.
Honestly the people that make me feel not lonely are not the ones I have sex with. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket; that’s how you end up in a codependent mess. Loneliness isn’t about romantic partners only, and friendships can be the most fulfilling things.
That’s if one assumes that the loneliness is caused solely by a lack of romantic connection, yes.
Personally, I’m lacking in the friendship and acceptance department as well, and sex most certainly isn’t a part of either of those.
[USB Connection sound]
Remember to safely unmount
You mean pull out just after the handshake packets get sent?
Instead of “having been married” and “having had sex”, maybe measure the amount actually spent in relationships and their quality.
If a large portion of men don’t have the skills to be in a relationship despite having the skills to find one, then the data showed here in greentext means jack shit.
I almost was in the 3.3%… dodged it by only a few years.
Then I went without for a long while after though because I mistakenly thought any sex I’d have after that would probably be equally mediocre and it wasn’t worth the effort. Realized that was stupid and I was missing out. Now I’m trying hard to get into a sexual relationship of some kind again with some minor success in the form of occasional one night stands. They’re OK fun. I think my autism makes it hard to maintain the relationships though beyond one or two nights. My masking inevitably slips a little and I say or do something cringe or rude.
I’m bi I’ve been contemplating getting on Grindr to explore my homo side a bit more but from what I hear that’s basically nothing but one night stands…
It’s okay to be different and that often comes with struggles. But it sounds like you’re trying to attack the problem with yourself and not just giving up and being angry about the world. That’s a good mindset to have.
Sex is fun, but it doesn’t cure loneliness. If you’re looking for a longer term solution then start looking to build lasting relationships, be open about having autism and you’ll find that the people you end up meeting will be going into things with you with a bit more understanding and empathy than if you just try, and fail, masking.
And, as always, a therapist is very useful when you’re trying to make a big change in your life. Having someone who is both educated in psychology and an unbiased observer can really help you see and understand things that you’d otherwise miss.
Only problem is every time I’ve been open about my autism with a person I was attracted to up front their interest starts to slowly fade. Its not immediate, but I suspect they start framing everything I say or do as part of my autism and I think they lose interest because of that. Though its impossible to know, and it might be coincidence or I’m seeing patterns where there are none. So I tend to keep it to myself with in person interactions more these days.
