I respect people’s right to use apple products, but please stop asserting “privacy”, big corps doesn’t give a shit.
Apple does give a shit about privacy… in the same way that companies care about gay pride. Right now privacy is still a selling point for Apple compared to other companies. This is why they are still so loud about on device AI and pretty much silent when any of their features require cloud processing. But am under no illusions that will remain the case forever.
As far as “dumb phones” are concerned; they don’t exist anymore. It’s still a device with an OS, GPS (as required by the law that created the Amber Alert here in the US), and an Internet connection, that makes calls using VoLTE or similar. Most of the ones you can buy today run things like KaiOS which has an App Store and comes with Google Maps preinstalled.
If you want real privacy you need to disconnect from the Internet which pretty much means no phones at all now that everything is VoIP.
Apple has 2x very publicly resisted government demands for user data and campaigned against laws to institute backdoors into their software and services. They’re not perfect by any means but they are by far a lesser evil.
A fully capable Linux phone is the dream, but most people aren’t going to use one. For the majority of people, I would recommend the company that refused to listen to the US and EU about weakening the security of their products than the one with the business model of relying on advertising to you and selling your data.
They just do that for brand optics. Because researchers found the apple privacy settings off/on made no difference to the packet of info sent to apple. Their privacy is a facade.
The issue in one of the cases (San Bernardino) had nothing to do with iCloud data, and everything to do with the data on the device itself. The FBI request was a backdoor into the device. Apple (rightly) refused to add a backdoor to access the phone.
You are referencing data that goes to Apple’s iCloud servers, which Apple was happy to provide because they held the encryption keys. Since then, they have enabled an E2E encryption feature for iCloud data.
I am happy to discuss Apple’s shortcomings, but let’s be clear on which ones we’re discussing
Its the don’t track privacy type settings where you opt out, research found it was a toggle button that did nothing.
They only tout privacy to gain market, they would sell us out for a dollar
Is this separate from Advanced Data Protection, which is E2E encrypted data on iCloud?
“Don’t track privacy type settings” isn’t very descriptive, so apologies if I’m sounding any way I’m just trying to be clear about what the complaint here is.
And to be clear, is this a privacy concern exclusive to Apple?
Totally unrelated to the E2E, I will have to search for it. It was a year or two ago. Apple claimed turning off the data collection kept your use private to you, but was just a lie, they collected all your data anyway.
And yes, its an IPhone setting not an android setting. Google is another issue.
Ok please let me know when you have more information I am very interested to know.
And they have proven if the government makes a law requiring access they’ll do it. They have done it for China and Russia.
That’s literally any company though. If you want to legally operate in a certain country, you need to abide by the country’s laws. Sure, pirate FOSS projects could exist. But that’s not the kind of shit that will be sold in retail, because it would literally be illegal to sell.
This is like complaining that Japanese phones can’t disable the camera shutter sound. It’s because Japan regulated the shutter sound, because upskirting was a major issue. So phones legally sold in Japan are required to have the shutter sound permanently set at a high volume, even when the ringer is silenced. That isn’t the phone maker’s fault.
Apple campaigned against regulation like what you’re complaining about. It isn’t Apple’s fault that the regulation was passed anyways.
Well yeah they kinda have to at that point in order to continue conducting business in that country. What about this is specific to Apple?
Was giving literal gold to Donald Trump part of that campaign to save the users?
No that was Tim Apple kissing the ring.
You’re saying the same thing as the top of the thread. All of this is for now. At some point it could be advantageous for Apple to stop resisting US demands. It is important to understand and prepare for that while also accepting, for now, Apple provides the most corporate privacy of the corporate privacy options in the US.
The three of us are in agreement.
Apple has 2x very publicly resisted government demands for user data and campaigned against laws to institute backdoors into their software and services.
Indeed.
They also immediately folded in China after being given the ultimatum of comply or die.
All it would take is Trump to give the same ultimatum…
Yeah I would expect the same of any company. They have to comply with the laws of the country they do business in. This same requirement compelled them to finally add USB-C to iPhones and allow alternate app stores.
I wouldn’t blame Google for doing the same, so I’m not going to blame Apple for it either. Do you actually expect any company their size to do any different?
To the extent they’re legally able to, Apple has absolutely resisted compromising their device security features to aid law enforcement.
Good thing Trump’s distracted by gold baubles.
Mostly agree except about disconnecting from the internet, classic SMS/voice calls aren’t any more private than VoIP.
Your best bet for location privacy is E2E encrypted services like Signal over wifi, plus MAC randomization and a VPN on untrusted networks. I’d say GrapheneOS is good enough for most people, but mobile Linux has also come a long way.
Encryption doesn’t stop them from knowing what tower you are attached to. Simply having a phone on you even with the GPS and WiFi off (or with the newer phones even the whole phone off) would still be enough to get your location to within a few hundred feet. The original iPhone used triangulation exclusively for location.
Honestly though what should I switch to. I have a lot of apps that need side loading.
There are many custom ROMs based on AOSP: GrapheneOS (for security against hacking and confiscation), LineageOS and its descendants /e/OS, iodéOS, and crDroid, etc. CalyxOS is not doing well right now, but it should be back in a few months.
Make sure you can relock the bootloader after installing to protect against attacks through the USB connector.
Murena ships /e/OS preinstalled on the European Fairphone and Shiftphone. Iodé similarly.
Then there’s Volla phone which can have Linux (Ubuntu Touch) and and VollaOS (AOSP-based) on the same phone. There are other Linux phones, but nobody recommends them for normal consumers.
you can make your point without ableism, you know
also, has anyone (at least here on lemmy) said “well at least apple cares about privacy!!”? the most ive seen is “apple is less atrocious with privacy than google”, which is demonstrably true (tho if you care about maximum privacy, using an iphone is obviously not a good idea)
This is only ableist if you believe the drooling idiot at the bottom has a disability and is not just a drooling idiot.
yeah maybe theyre the ableist ones if they think that is a depiction of someone with a disability lmao
he has facial deformity which is usually accompanied by other developmental issues, and is being used to stand in for exactly that here
Does anyone remember r/hailcorporate and its brief moment of fame before the popular subs banned mention of it and its own mods started running a crypto scam?
It was annoying. Couldn’t mention any brand name in any context without getting an “/r/hailcorporate” comment.
I liked that part of it anyway
I hear Linux phones are close for daily driver stuff. Gonna try one when I am ready for a phone.
Pretty disappointed in my 2 year old pixel, regardless of Googles continued enshitification
Have you looked into GrapheneOS support for your device?
Sucks that it only works on Pixels for the most part. I’ve never paid that much for a phone, and I ain’t starting now lol
I got to expense mine, wouldn’t pay that much if i had to actually pay lol
Maybe get used? That way you don’t support Google and it doesn’t cost too much. Not sure how much mine cost, I got it as a gift from my mother who’s pretty good about finding sales for things, although it was brand-new.
If not that then people seem to see CalyxOS as a decent alternative.
Not CalyxOS right now.
https://calyxos.org/news/2025/08/01/a-letter-to-our-community/I went with /e/OS, and it works well, even bank apps.
Let me put this here:
Murena (the ppl behind /e/ OS) feed your data to LLMs, and there’s also telemetry.
FYI, I just got LineageOS on a cheap Motorola phone ($140 USD, but you need a PC to do the install)
Nice! I have a PC! I’m just very cheap!
@chocrates @DeathByBigSad If you’re already used to Linux desktop, I’d even venture to say that Linux phones are daily drivable for you in this order: #FLX1s from @furilabs, #JollaC2, #LibertyPhone, #Librem5, #Pinephone.
I’m daily driving a #Librem 5 with #postmarketOS and everything critical actually works for my use case.
Not “non-approved apps”, unsigned apps. They’re not running approval on the software itself. And technically you can still sideload signed software. And you can sideload unsigned software in non-Google certified Android devices, too.
Hey, I hate their stupid power grab, it sucks and I hope regulators intervene, but if you’re gonna get all pretentious and uppity about everybody else’s responses you’re gonna get fact checked. I don’t make the rules.
Say, I wanna run an F-Droid app, I trust F-Droid’s signature, but Google doesn’t, therefore, I can’t run it. Tell me: How is that not an “approval process”.
And how about izzyondroid or The Guardian? What if they don’t wanna show their IDs or if Google deems them “untrustworthy”. (They are more safe than the “Play Store” btw, Google can’t even keep their own stores free of malware lol, which a bunch of volunteers have much safer apps)
I can already tell this is going to be one of those conversations you get online where people are just itching for somebody to defend the position they want to argue against and will just have that argument regardless of what the other side says.
But because I’m a very flawed person I’ll still go for it and note that technically if F-Droid is the one signing all the apps and Google doesn’t like one of them, they’d have to ban F-Droid’s entire account, not just the one app. Anything else would require them to look at the apps in the first place, which in this scenario they are not doing.
But it’s certainly possible that they’ll ban a specific developer (or a store if the store is doing the signing), and that’s one of the reasons why this scheme is unacceptable.
What it is not is an approval process, since… you know, they’re not looking at the apps themselves. Words mean things.
Presumably, at least nominally, Google wants the signatures to be able to tie an app to a developer. Whether they are going to ban people proactively or not we simply don’t know because their stupid policy is barely communicated and they seem to intend to get it rolling before addressing any of these because Apple already used this loophole successfully so why the hell not, I suppose.
Comparatively they are better. Its a duopoly in terms of mobile OSs and one is made by a company who mines data and sells ads as its core. The other sells hardware and subscriptions.
I use linux and I wish for a full featured marketable linux phone someday that can compete but with privacy they absolutely beat google.
I have never owned an iphone amd I am currently debating on getting a pixel to move to gOS.
I’m all for linux, I miss the market before iPhone domination. Weird ass symbian phones, windows phones, nokia taco phones, there was all sorts of stuff. I wish we could have a market like that with lots of diverse phones that all run different operating systems. I also wish we could step away from app stores and we could just start building websites again, phones are fast enough now
The problem is not with Android its with Google But apparently android is from Google even though its open source. Sure, linux phones are nice but they are nowhere near stable.
The problem is we do everything with mobile phones now even banking and security is a big lead here The Banking apps may need to make sure each and every linux phones are secure and may not have any loopholes Which is tedious Even installing a custom rom can hinder the default security sometimes. If any problems arise neither linux phones nor banks can give any warranty As of now android is more secure and stable and theres a lot of time ahead of linux phones to succeed
Wow, that’s so cool OP that you think we should be allowed to use apple products
You forgot
these crybaby bitches don’t know signing certificates are free & you can sign software yourself or disable the validator
You forgot
these crybaby bitches don’t know signing certificates are free & you can sign software yourself or disable the validator
🤔
disable the validator
Aka: Custom ROMs, or at the very least, root access (which requires bootloader unlocking)
signing certificates are free
Yes, but unless you’ve done the aforementioned, stock roms with locked bootloaders still require Google to approve your signing keys, which requires you upload your government issued ID (and $25 payment).
Aka: Custom ROMs, or at the very least, root access (which requires bootloader unlocking)
Nah, only “certified Android devices”, ie, those certified for and that ship with Play Protect, will block apps unsigned by a verified developer, and Play Protect can be disabled. Standard.
which requires you upload your government issued ID (and $25 payment)
Nope on cost: free for personal use.
Moreover, installs over Android Debug Bridge bypass verification entirely.
Will Android Debug Bridge (ADB) install work without registration? As a developer, you are free to install apps without verification with ADB.
If I want to modify or hack some apk and install it on my own device, do I have to verify? Apps installed using ADB won’t require verification.
Enabling developer mode for that isn’t a big deal.
This all seems like a huge nothingburger by people who don’t read.
The dropped Chromecast for a new device. I was sideloading apps on that. I wonder how long before we have a “fix”
I’d LOVE to know how many of the comments here were made on an iPhone.
What are the consequences for Lineage OS?
It won’t affect you in any way directly. The issue is it very well may affect what apps are available and regularly updated on Fdroid and other app stores or repos.
I get it, it’s bad for the ecosystem in general.
Installing non-approved apps on custom roms will still work.
Dire, from what I gathered
That’s a damn shame.
It’s really funny seeing people who defend capitalism trying to avoid capitalism problems with individual actions instead of organizing themselves and fighting for the interest of their own class
Thia guy i know to a tee. He’ll defend capitalism to the death and say how the left is evil and anarchy capitalism is the only way.
Idiot. And he pitches about everything in life capitalism causes. I point this out and he says well yeah but thats just bad capitalism not good capitalism. Also he loves fElon, so there’s that.
Can I use my work shit on a Linux phone or custom Rom. Also what are my hardware options with those.
If it’s designed for Android, not a phone using desktop Linux, but you can on a custom ROM which is probably a variant of AOSP.
Also what are my hardware options with those.
Incredibly specific and restrictive, do your homework carefully. Pixels are usually (always?) good, which is ironic, while certian manufacturers like Samsung are right out.
I found a model that works secondhand and I’m as happy as a pig in shit with it, FYI.
Yea, pixels don’t have an SD slot so that’s out.
Isn’t work supposed to provide you with a phone?
Linux phones aren’t quite there yet, and one of the big problems from what I understand is simply that the hardware is locked down. Firmware and drivers aren’t readily available, and so supporting handsets is just really hard.
How much money would be needed to build an open source linux phone from the ground up?
I would say that completely FOSS Linux OS won’t ever be as smooth experience as business solution. Jolla has developed SailfishOS which is mostly open decade now and it is quite stable. Also has android emulator where you can use most android apps, but not all. In my opinion we should support that as much as possible to have true alternative. Also EU should start supporting ita development
I don’t know if they’d even be up for it but at this point I think the best option would be Framework getting into it as theyre already trusted by the community.
But even if we get the hardware down there’s another issue - we need an open source, government approved, bank approved Wallet app. There’s only Google or Apple wallet to store important documents on Mobile at the moment. Frustratingly, some governments are using only those two as a source for national verification which is obviously a problem.
would it not be theoretically possible to run a virtual OS to use an app like that on a linux phone?
I’m pretty sure there’s still products like that. I bought a PinePhone once upon a time.
Um…who actually thinks #3? Apple tells you they sell your stuff and makes app devs tell you. They still sell it, mine it, tailor it for ads, all the same stuff as Google…but just not as pervasive.
The GrapheneOS people. Everyone in their IRC unironically thinks Iphones are highly secure, in part BECAUSE they are proprietary. But they also don’t tolerate any criticism of Google, especially if you criticize Google for being proprietary.
