Yoshi P (FFXIV): “Yeah, the game was a huge cultural hit that grew more successful with each expansion, so I thought to myself… now that we’ve brought in millions upon millions of players, why not nerf all of the overworld content into absurdity to bring in maybe forty or fifty noobs? So I did. And then I changed all of the classes again once everyone had reached max level. Nobody liked that. So I thought… why not do it again?”
Zenimax (ESO): “So I just kind of made up whatever and then dialed the difficulty down to about a tenth of what it used to be. Now overworld content is on par with swinging an aluminum bat through a pile of packing peanuts. Also, the Second Era was filled with superhero sky ninjas with lava wings who rode around Tamriel upon lightning horses and mechanical spiders. Deal with it.”
Games are supposed to be fun. End of conversation. There shouldn’t be a game that some people can’t beat just because they have slower reaction times or have a disability that prevents them from playing something such as Dark Souls. Dark Souls is a great game, but dying to some of the lower level enemies because they kept hit stunning me isn’t fun or cool in the slightest. It’s just fucking annoying. I can’t even imagine what someone who has disabilities or slower reaction times would feel.
Also, quit fucking gatekeeping games people. Jesus.
Games are supposed to be fun, but they’re not supposed to be fun for everyone.
So, some people will not enjoy dark souls, because the main gameplay - learning movesets until you’re able to not die to them - is not fun for some people. On the other hand, learning movesets at a really slow pace because the run back to the boss takes ages, or a boss that you can learn quite well but takes ages to kill because it leaves very few openings, or a boss that you would be able to learn except it’s in a tiny arena and the camera always fucks up… these are all areas in which dark souls games sometimes let down players who are geared to enjoy them.
they’re not supposed to be fun for everyone
This is why it should be even easier for consumers to return games. Playing a game and deciding it’s not for you is one thing. Playing a game and realizing you just flushed $70 down the toilet is infuriating.
Let’s turn, “I deserve to get my money’s worth” into “I deserve to get my money back.”
Steam is pretty good for that I guess.
Not if the game wastes your time between boys attempts before you realise you’re not having fun anymore but that your return window has now expired
Yeah that’s as potential issue
Yeah, it should be based on playtime though there’s probably a reason why it isn’t. There are times were I’d have a game in my library that I only get to many months after purchase only to find out its not what I was expecting.
In my eyes, yes, games are supposed to be fun for MOST people. It’s… like… the whole point of it being an entertainment product…
Eh, fun isn’t the only thing people want from entertainment but even if that were always true there isn’t any reason niche games shouldn’t exist. Who am I to tell someone what kind of game they should play. Lots of games out there that I won’t play because I know it’s not for me - sometimes that sucks cause I like the art or the concept and wish the mechanics were what I want but they aren’t and I move on.
Catering to “most” also results in games that tend to be homogeneous in some way and that sucks for those that want niche. Also sucks when niche exists and gets ruined to appeal to “most” but that’s just how it goes.
Sometimes I wonder if I just don’t know how to properly type in English or if people really do have a hard time reading.
No one is telling anybody what to do. It’s a fucking OPTION that a player can TOGGLE to make the game more accessible TO THEM.
Gatekeeping games is simply a dumbass thing to think and do. So fucking weird.
And that option being present would literally compromise the artistic vision of basically an entire genre of games
Doesn’t seem to stop other game devs, but sure. Keep up the gatekeeping.
Deep breaths, it’s gonna be OK. You are saying that all games should include a toggle/slider. I don’t agree. Devs should make games they want to make and I’ll play them if they appeal to me and you should too. But don’t get bent when they don’t have a feature you want.
Ugh. You people just don’t get it. You’re essentially saying that people who can’t physically interact with the game like you and I can are just shit out of luck. It’s literally not about me in anyway whatsoever. I can play them just fine.
I love video games, and I just think that they should be accessible to everyone. Whether that be a difficulty slider or just some accessibility options for those who need them. I want everyone to be able to play some of the games I love, so that I can have more people to talk about it with.
Thats the difference between me and most of the other people like you here in these comments. I’m not asking for them for me, I don’t need them. I’m asking them for people who would love to be able to play some of these big franchises but physically can’t.
Again, gatekeeping is such a fucking weird thing to do.
It’s not gate keeping, and the demand is unreasonable. Not all modes of transportation require accommodation for everyone. A paraplegic is not riding a motorcycle. That’s not a dig at them. And despite your frustration it doesn’t make your opinion more valid than a developer’s.
Dark Souls is a great game, but dying to some of the lower level enemies because they kept hit stunning me isn’t fun or cool in the slightest.
Why is this happening? Get some armor. Or a big shield. Or a bow or spells. Or just, like, run past them. None of that requires lightning reflexes.
Sometimes people are like “I want to play this game and not engage with any of its systems” and I’m just like why.
I’ve beaten the Dark Souls trilogy and Elden Ring. I didn’t have fun when I was dying to the combat, I was having a BLAST with the exploration and the rest of the games mechanics. It’s almost like you can have both be fun…
What are the rest of the mechanics? It’s almost all combat and exploration (that leads to more combat). There’s no, like, base building or grand strategy or romance plots.
That said, I don’t think you can please everyone. I found the games enjoyable as they are.
The armor/weapon system is fantastic, the level up system is simplistic, but also super in depth, the level design and how everything connects is amazing, etc. etc.
You can though. You add a difficulty slider, or some options in an accessibility menu. God of War (2018), and God of War Ragnarok, the newer Spider-Man games, and probably some of the other Playstation exclusives ALL have options in game that allow people to play their games. I don’t want to hear that nonsense that it just can’t be done.
I consider the weapon system part of the combat. I guess the leveling system is its own mechanic, but it’s super shallow compared to many other games (eg: path of exile, or even Baldur’s gâte)
Some people wouldn’t be happy with a difficulty slider. Some people would use the slider to make themselves unhappy. Either by turning it too high due to hubris, or too low from lack of confidence. The unified difficulty of the souls games for many people is a plus, and creates a sense of shared struggle they enjoy.
And as I said elsewhere, I really don’t think meta game options are the only way to do difficulty.
Some people wouldn’t be happy with a difficulty slider.
If they can’t have fun without gatekeeping, then that is on them.
Video games are art. Just like a movie can be sad or a painting can be distressing, video games are allowed to explore all kinds of emotions.
Sometimes a higher difficulty is part of the artist’s vision. They get to decide how they convey what they want to convey.
One of my favorite new games is UFO 50. It’s a collection of retro-style games where some of them are genuinely very difficult, and others are just do a great job of simulating difficulty. The difficulty drops off right around the time you start to get a handle on the mechanics, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the game getting easier or if you’re just getting better.
So, you believe that gatekeeping games is cool then? That’s so lame. “Gamers” are weird, man.
Is the existence of the film Stalker somehow gatekeeping movies? Just don’t fucking watch it.
The difference is the medium. We are not talking about movies, but you insist upon making it about them. You don’t have a real argument. It’s okay.
They are literally saying that games are allowed to be difficult. Do you think horror movies should have a scary slider?
Are… movies an interactive entertainment medium…?
Oh, right. No they’re not. So, that doesn’t really track.
If they’re fucking “allowed” to be difficult, then they’re “allowed” to be easier if the player WANTS that.
Why is interactivity a special trait for this discussion?
Because that’s the part that makes video games, video games.
Sure, it’s what makes them powerfully immersive. I’m asking why being interactive means they have to be the most accessible form of art.
“Allowed” and “required” are not the same thing, you’re arguing for them to be required, which is crybaby bullshit.
lol. Okay buddy.
That’s literally what you’re doing. How is that not what you are doing?
👍
Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play every game. Not every game has to be for everybody, and that’s ok. The exact same criticism can be made the other way around, that no game should be too easy because boredom is bad. And it’s exactly as stupid an argument in either direction.
Of course not. I do believe that gatekeeping gaming is a fucking stupid thing to do though. Not every game HAS to be for everyone, and that’s not even what I’m saying so bad argument to begin with.
What I AM saying though, is more people can play the same games and… GASP… actually be able to talk to their more hardcore friends about the game that their friend recommended! Man! What an idea!
There is nothing preventing YOU from playing on the highest, most hardcore gamer difficulty, so again, your point is moot.
My point is preventing people who aren’t able to function on the same level as a “normal” human from playing one of the biggest franchises in gaming history is stupid and there is nothing and no reason whatsoever to exempt them from being able to enjoy the games other than this stupid ass arbitrary gatekeeping bullshit a lot of so called gamers like to pull out.
You can still sit there and run around with no armor and do a no hit run. There is literally nothing stopping you from that… unless… you want to play on an easier difficulty and don’t want to admit it…?
actually be able to talk to their more hardcore friends about the game that their friend recommended!
The journey is often as important to the experience. It would be like your friend telling you about a great hike but then driving to the top just to talk about the view.
And if someone can’t make that journey because of things they have no control over, fuck them right? You people are truly disgusting. Yikes.
Yeah. The human experience is not, cannot be, and should not be homogeneous.
Find some humanity, buddy. It’ll do you better than this.
You should read “Harrison Bergeron”.
Not everyone gets to make the same journey. You live in a fantasy world.
God, I wish I lived in a fantasy world. But, unfortunately, I have to exist alongside people who can’t think of anyone other than themselves. Like… most of the commenters here who kept trying to bring up what they believe to be valid points, but really just paint themselves as assholes who don’t want people to be able to enjoy their hardcore gamer games. Oh well. There plenty of people like you out there.
“People disagree with me and that makes them unfeeling sociopaths.”
Nobody would be putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play on an easier difficulty either
No but apparently some people are dying to put a gun to every game dev’s head on the planet to force them to create a Very Very Easy Mode.
Lol, I appreciate the edit. Thanks for making it immediately clear that I shouldn’t waste my time reading the rest.
Not all games are for everyone. A game does not have to cater to all audiences. That’s ok.
That’s such a lame ass rebuke. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done by developers who actually care about the medium and want more people to play their games. Did we not fucking invent braille so blind people can read???
Heh, it’s funny that you accuse people of gatekeeping when the only person doing gatekeeping here is you: “games are supposed to be fun”. No, games are supposed to be whatever the fuck their creators want them to be, and then you get to pick and choose which ones (out of the millions and millions of videogames being created, enough for several lifetimes) you want to spend your valuable time on. You trying to dictate how creators should create their creations is very rich. Get in the fucking ring and create something, then you’ll get to dictate to yourself as much as you want on how your game should be created.
“People play games to relax, they’re supposed to be fun” your preference for relaxing is not universal, your inability to enjoy any particular game is your own problem, the mere existence of shit that was not made for you is not in any way gatekeeping
your preference for relaxing is not universal
No indeed, that is why you have DIFFICULTY OPTIONS.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
You have the option to play a different game or none at all, if you choose not to avail yourself of that option then you have voluntarily selected your difficulty
All games should have difficulty settings as fleshed out as Atomfall.
The idea that games should be a set difficulty with the set annoyances that game includes is stupid.
LIke I personally, would delete all minigames, fuck em, and have hard combat. Thats my preference.
I fucking hate creatives who believe super deeply they’ve created some masterpiece meant to be played one way.
Yup. I don’t like easy modes at all, but they’re not for me. If I can’t die horribly in the tutorial, what are we even doing here?
I want a game where I can die during the character creation.
I’ve never played but I understand that’s a distinct possibility in the TTRPG Traveller.
I only know an RPG where the protagonist dies before the title drop. Lol
Thanks, Elon.
Yeah, just take the gameplay out and serve me the cut scenes as a TV show at that point
That’s my wife’s style. She did Exposition 33 the opposite way from me and we both enjoyed it in our own ways. It was way more fun to break the game by perfect dodging things I had no business fighting, lol.
Exposition 33
Can’t tell if this is a typo or a clever joke
More like I shouldn’t let my phone’s auto correct do whatever it wants but I’m leaving it, lol
Some poor bastard actually buys a Kojima game to watch the cut scenes.
And then there’s Yoko Taro, who instead opts for the emotional difficulty in his games
And then there’s Electronic Arts, who instead opts for technical difficulties.
Or financial difficulties
Game being hard means the struggle of the character can be conveyed to the player.
I wasn’t expecting this post to bring out this kind of animosity in people. Jesus fuckin’ christ.
Video games are not a public service, there is no such thing as a 100% universally enjoyed video game for a reason. It’s ok that there are different types of video games, folks, be them too hard or too easy for your tastes, it’s kind of stupid to throw these kinds of stones about it.
I mean, is every book supposed to be palatable to everyone? Are we all supposed to feel the exact same way about every piece of art? This is like being mad that Guardians of The Galaxy involved sci-fi and super heroes and wasn’t a WWII documentary because that’s what you’d have preferred to watch.
I like to relax when I play. My days of stressing out over games ended when I had stress in real life.
we wanted to bring everyone to the same level of enjoyment
but you don’t, idiot. the average number of hands people have is less than than two.
I had read some posts on Usenet back then with some players saying UV wasn’t as tough as they hoped it would be. (…) I thought “Oh really? Ok then. You’re all dead.” (…) It wasn’t meant to be fair, or even finishable. I can’t even get past E1M3 in nightmare. Any level with backtracking would be almost impossible.
- John Romero
There is a secret level in Doom II described in the biography Masters of Doom by David Kushner. It was made as a prank, where the boss had the face of one of the Johns and moved at 200% faster speed than the player. I’m not sure if this made it into the retail or shareware versions they shipped.
You don’t see this kind of attitude as often in games these days. Maybe indies.
I don’t think I’ve played a game with fairer difficulty options than Halo: CE. On the lowest difficulty, even your grandma with arthritis can beat it, and on the hardest it’s an actual challenge without making enemies infallibly accurate bullet sponges. But if you can’t do it that way, do it Michael Zaki’s way.
And then theres LASO lol
That’s for enthusiastic masochists. 😅
Halo CE legendary was 100% an afterthought that Bungie threw a couple of multipliers in at the end because it makes like more than half of your potential loadout worthless lol.
It was still fun, but god damn was it borderline annoying like you’re playing a really unfair zombie survival game.
Try Nier Automata
You can install chips in your brain that automates gameplay features. Like getting your turret to shoot automatically, making you melee attack automatically when you are in range, dodge automatically, …
You can really customize your difficulty to the point that the game basically plays itself.
The only downside is that you miss out on using other cooler chip abilities.
I’m going to make this point again because it went unnoticed due to the sheer amount of comments, but you wouldn’t complain about a Rubik’s cube or crossword puzzle being too hard or anything else designed to challenge you. I’d argue that without the difficulty of solving a Rubik’s cube that toy would be lost to time. The only reason it still exists today is because it was so hard to solve for children when it was released. Souls games are the same. The only reason we still talk about them and the only reason they gained the popularity that they did is because of the difficulty.
I remember distinctly picking up dark souls on sale on a whim before it started really entering mainstream discussion. The guy working at Gamestop warned me that people kept returning it because it was too hard. I took it home and played it and really learned the mechanics then I brought it to my friends to try. They learned the mechanics and since then we’ve had an unofficial race to see who can beat the newest FromSoft game fastest. It was the difficulty of the game that made it so addicting. Without that the game would be boring and no one would know what it was in 2025. If you don’t believe me install the easy mode mods and come back to let us know what your experience was like.
And what are the games they talk about?
Kojima is talking about Death Stranding. Miyazaki is talking about one of the Dark Souls games. Itagaki is known for the early 2000s Ninja Gaidens and Dead or Alive, so I’m pretty sure this would have been in reference to Ninja Gaiden.
I like the Dead or Alive where they play beach volleyball and their lady bits jiggle.
Well, you can thank Itagaki for that.
Rocking that Rukia Kuchiki haircut.
Rest in peace
Oh damn, he just died a couple weeks ago. Age 58. That’s sad, I hadn’t heard until now.
Reading this thread has re-confirmed that gatekeepers are a blight on humanity.
I will cheat in your sacred games and you can’t stop me. I’ll make my own rules. What are you gonna do about it, break into my house and steal my computer?
