I guarantee you, every loser making one of those comments doesn’t do shit with their lives.
They can’t comprehend that in order to get better at things, you have to practice them.
Their lives consist of working, sleeping, and playing video games. It’s pathetic.
i was going to take this online negativity seriously, but i was recently reminded not to
I consider this a result from destabilization campaigns by evil global forces. They make everybody hate each other and spread negativity that snowballs into more negativity, until the point where we hate everything and become monsters ourselves.
Interesting theory, but I have a better one.
This is part of the concerted effort to make sure as many people do nothing with their lives as possible. There’s a culture of loserdom where people literally only play video games with their lives. Such a loser should never be taken seriously unless you want to end up like them.
Lol there’s nobody to blame folks. Most people are positive and productive with their lives, and some people arent.
It’s been my experience that dedicated places for fans of certain games or franchises to congregate always devolve into a never-ending cycle of “Everything is wrong and this game is terrible. I have 3000 hours in it.”.
No one hates a game like the most dedicated fans do. For instance, I put a significant amount of time into the Forza franchise over the years. The Forza community (both the subreddit and the official Forza forums) might be one of the worst I’ve ever experienced. No one is ever happy with or about anything.
Basically, if you really like something, avoid the fan communities at all costs. You’ll end up finding out about things that are supposedly “game ruining” that you never even knew or cared about and then you won’t be able to un-see it.
Glad he ignored the negativity and succeeded. Personally I don’t see the appeal of this type of game though. But, different strokes and all that.
Glad it worked out for the guy and he found a market, but I did give Hollow Knight about 15 minutes of my time and my eyes glazed over because I think I’m perma-bored with cartoonish 2D platformers. So, I do understand where some of those redditors are coming from. That said, there are people who like them, so there is a market out there for them and that’s great.
I’m curious as to what style of game captures your attention?
FPS and RPGs. I actually have played a few side scrollers here and there, but not overly cartoonish ones. I personally don’t find the art style of Hollow Knight appealing.
Cool. I personally like Metroidvania’s so it’s not the art style that grabbed me first but the genre. With that said I really like the style, I think it looks bloody lovely.
Do you like Metroid or Castlevania?
I honestly couldn’t figure the game out…I’m glad people enjoy it, but I’m too smooth brained to have gotten anywhere
If you get stuck or don’t know where to go next, you can ask the mayor. He will give you a hint for the next location.
I have a poor sense of direction and just get lost a LOT.
With 20/20 hindsight it was obviously a good idea.
But at the time of making the decision, it was an unbelievably risky plan and the odds were stacked against it. As a matter of fact, for every successful 2D platformer made with care and love that gets released and becomes successful, there are dozens that fail miserably and that you will never hear of.
Yes, believing in yourself and taking risks makes success possible, but remember that it does not guarantee it.
luck has a lot to do with success, people often forget
And the other way around, too. With the best conditions, you also need luck. (while still fully agreeing)
If you didn’t prepare for it, you often can’t use the luck when it passes buy.
Luck and a good review from a relevant reviewer. The devs of Nightmare Reaper credit Civvie11’s reviews of their game to the multifold increase of sales after they sent him a redeem code. And that’s not the only game that he’s helped out.
People forget that Hollow Knight didn’t do very well at first, also. It took an excruciatingly long time for it to pick up steam.
Yeah but the vast majority of those failed games look bad and are mediocre gameplay wise. Even if they are a true passion project. They don’t come close to the quality of games like Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Rogue Legacy, Inside or even Pizza Tower. Most sidescrollers (including metroidvanias, rogue likes and souls likes) released on Steam are of low quality because it’s very easy to make a basic game in that genre.
Yes the genre is risky but if you make a very good looking game that stands out with top notch gameplay you increase the odds of success significantly.
Budding indie devs need to realize whether they can make such a game. If not they need to find another genre that is less crowded or a genre with a very high demand, like the horror / liminal space genre those games have a much higher success rate compared to the average platformer.
This comment sounds like it’s discouraging these kind of risks. But I feel like you should almost always take them, because otherwise your life is just hollow.
I think you’ve got to work out what your appetite for risk is. It’s important to do take risks sometimes even if they scare you to move your life forward but also sometimes don’t. I’ve seen a bunch of people really fuck their lives up because they just kept rolling the dice.
But what is “fucking your life up”? What is the end goal of life that you have to achieve, else you failed your life?
When I say fucking up I mean things like spending all their savings and maxing out their credit chasing a dream. It could have all worked out for them if things had gone different, but it didn’t. As a result they’re a lot less happy, don’t have housing security and spend a lot more of their life fighting to stay afloat - their life is worse by almost every measurable metric. It’s not about failing life, but it is about minimizing your suffering.
Despite this being a question for everyone to answer on their own, continuously failing risky bets and losing everything to it does not look like it will be a popular answer
But why would you even care about popularity? Right wing movements are also popular right now. I don’t think popularity is any important measure at all to determine if something is right/wrong/good/bad
One of my goals in life is to not become impoverished due to bad financial decisions, and think of how many people quit their jobs to try to make a successful game just for their plan to not work out and them then trying to somehow get their lives back in order so they won’t become homeless.
Mummy, why can’t we have dinner today?
I’m sorry honey but you have to understand that daddy took a risk otherwise he would feel hollow! Sure we’re broke now because he quit his job to do a thing and it didn’t take off, and your little brother Timmy had to go live with Gramma or else he’d starve, but think of how daddy feels now! Not hollow!
I think you missed the joke
Yeah, that’s not how it works when you don’t live in the US.
GPs comment was hyperbole, but it holds true for most countries.
I live in Germany and make a pretty good salary as a developer. If I could, I’d take ½-1 year off work to develop one of a few games I’ve been designing over the last couple of years. In-between jobs I always start working on them, and those 1-2 months are a blast, much more fun than regular work.
But even though I have enough savings to do so, I really can’t, because it would mean:
- My career progression will pause, less future income
- I need my savings for unforeseen emergencies
- Losing out on a year of income will worsen my chances of ever affording my own apartment/house, and will worsen my private retirement savings
When the result is most likely making 0€, it’s hard to justify the risk.
Where do you live that nobody needs to work? I would sure like to move there.
“A family whose business failed will not just be left to starve” is very different from “nobody needs to work”.
I mean sure, your friends and family won’t let you starve. But you can’t rely on them forever. Government ain’t doing shit either: At least in my country, to get unemployment benefits, you need to be laid off or fired. If you quit your job to develop a game and fail, that’s on you. Yes, there’s also disability benefits, but those are small and require you to be disabled. Food banks exist too, but they don’t help you pay rent, nor do you get a full month’s worth of food every month.
All in all, a family with kids must have at least one working adult or HUGE savings.
So again, where’s the paradise where government will keep your rent or mortgage paid and your family fed if your game dev endeavour doesn’t pan out? I wanna move there.
Yeah… The constant assumption that everyone who speaks English has to be a Yankee Doodle Dandy or that their way always applies is tiring
We have decent worker protections in Belgium, but if you quit your job here to work on games I don’t know if you have the right to unemployment (since you weren’t fired). Even then, it only lasts for a year or so if you have worked at the place for 5 years, with the monthly payment decreasing significantly until the last few months you only get like 500€ per month.
If take no risk then you guarantee to fail. You just got to take those risks. And if it fails, don’t give up. Just get up dust yourself off and try again. Just at different approach.
My friend quit his job and has been making indie games since 2015. It’s been 20 years and he’s made like $40,000 total in the time with all his games combined. His wife pays all the bills. Every time he releases a new game he tells everyone this is the one that’ll make him a million bucks. He points to games like Hollowknight, Stardew Valley, Undertale etc as proof.
He’s definitely taking the wrong approach by trying to catch lightning in a bottle.
Without people like him, we wouldn’t have innovative indie games.
My friend quit his job and has been making indie games since 2015. It’s been 20 years
If it has been 20 years since 2015 then I think I overslept.
Hey, you. You’re finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us, and that thief over there.
Huh, I seem to have woken in 2011
It certainly feels like 20 years since 2015. Covid and Trump have easily stressed 20 years out of me.
This has scientific backing and isn’t just a feeling: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-pandemic-accelerated-brain-aging-study-rcna220048
In a just world, your friend would be able to create as much art as he wants without having to worry about who is paying the bills.
That’s literally what he’s doing. Ironically, his wife is a professional artist. She does digital art for a AAA game studio.
Depends on their financial position overall. If you live below your means and save up, especially in a professional position, you can offset expenses with passive investment income. Retirement is really just getting to the point where passive income and using up savings can last you until you expect to die.
If you have passive income that covers your bills, then the main difference between working and not working (or doing work without guaranteed income) is that you’re not getting ahead as quickly anymore. You’re not necessarily even falling behind, though even that state could be maintained for a while depending on how much you have saved and what kind of credit you have access to.
But yeah, if you’re living paycheck to paycheck, this isn’t an option, you’ll have to do the work around your other job.
Jesus christ, reddit. Take it down one single notch maybe? Like, bro
This is such a weird collection of comments.
I remember the first comment I got on online was “you suck”. But it was soon drowned by encouragement words and constructive feedback.
About Hollow Knight, by the time this got posted on reddit, the game was already funded through kickstarter - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight
What this image does not show is the amount of support this post received, more than 20k upvotes and plenty of endearing messages on reddit only.
u/YoDudeguy Nov 20 '15
Damn, that looks amazing! Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Will buy.u/Eliza_Douchecanoe Nov 20 '15
I like the dark feel of it, but with light-hearted game play and sound effects. Good shit.If I sort by votes, I had to scroll a bit to get to that 756 votes message.
It is important to filter and properly process the messages you receive. There are some mean and unnecessary messages on that image (and on the reddit thread), but they do not show the full picture and at that time could easily be ignored.
I agree. It can be easy to feel disheartened by a shitty comment (or many), and sometimes the bad outnumbers the good. However, it is useful to try to mentally filter out the mass of negativity because many of those are quick, lazy comments that say more about the commenter than the topic at hand.
Even though the sample of comments that you include in your comment are all short comments, I’d be inclined to view those with more weight, because it’s just a part of reality that it’s far easier to be negative and harmful than to be sincere and enthusiastic. There’s more effort and care into those short comments than someone just being negative
Thank you for this comment.
this would be on r/agedlikemilk
You mean /c/agedlikemilk?
Why c/ and not l/?
C for community
That makes sense, I like that, thanks for letting me know.
But then why is it r/ and not s/?
I read it as caged like milk and I leave it there
Hey I heard Cage the Milk is dropping their new album Lactose Obliteration soon!
Post it! I wonder if those folks ate their words or stand by them or what.
Do not consider online judgements at all.
Do your thing. Pursue your passions. Do it.I’ve found online feedback useful. You just have to be careful about where you get it and take it with a grain of salt. A very large one.
If someone is being mean and negative it’s fine to ignore. If someone is giving constructive feedback that’s negative it’s more worthwhile
I’ve noticed a lot of people who give advice online can’t think for themselves and therefore cannot tolerate anyone doing anything differently from them.
Once I recognized that such an idiot exists and is prevalent on online forums, it became very easy to write them off whenever I see them.
The average internet user is about as smart as the average person these days. We need to dig in order to find intelligence; it’s not the norm.
If someone gives you tips, advice, or constructive feedback: there’s a good chance they’re worth listening to.
Hostile, critical with no other feedback : almost certainly garbage.
The first comment in the image, to my mind, wasn’t actually bad. It didn’t tell them not to do something and it wasn’t critical. It just said they the category was very saturated and they should temper their expectations.
And, you’re also entirely correct that you should take even the feedback worth listening to with a grain of salt, or maybe a shaker. :) There’s a thousand and one ways to do anything, and it can be difficult to convey the difference between “this is how I would do it” and “this is how you should do it”.
(Doing software code reviews is a skill that can help teach the difference, and not everyone learns it)
But my passion is clubbing baby seals…
Goddamn, that’s an ancient image. 😂
If that is what you love, please club as many seals as it makes you happy.
Shitting on hard work and effort of indie devs and then wondering why the gaming ladscape is filled with souless corporate slop.
Yep, same day they’ll complain about Ubisoft and then pre-order the next Assassin’s Creed
One of the ugliest aspects of the upvote/downvote system is the way that it so often becomes a form of bullying.
Not really. Anyone who feels “bullied” by voting should get out of the kitchen.
I’m noticing most people on the internet legitimately can’t take criticism because they’ve been living in bubbles their entire lives.
Careful now, wouldn’t want to rock the boat, how else will I seek validation
I mean, part of the reason why the gaming industry sucks is because indie devs helped prove how low people’s standards are.
I noticed my enjoyment of gaming shot up 1,000-fold once I stopped caring about indie trash again and instead focused on games that appealed to me as a kid, before I was exposed to the low standards of the PC crowd.
he said on a post about hollowknight.
Hey man, you might be new to the internet, but I was around when indie games were taking off.
Fez, slenderman, and even journey all served to show what people were willing to accept. They were all considerably lower quality, cheaper, and easier to make than AAA games.
Hollow Knight is just the latest entry into that category.
Try playing some older AAA games to see how much effort was put into them vs. what you’ve been conditioned to accept now. There’s a world of difference between Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Hollow Knight.
You just don’t see it because you’ve never played those older games because you’re new to the world and part of the consumer bandwagon.
Hey man, you might have been around a while- a lot of us have- that clearly doesn’t make you an expert.
They were all considerably lower quality, cheaper, and easier to make than AAA games.
You are confusing ‘production value’ with ‘quality’. Being ‘easier to make’ (if that were true) and costing less to produce are both objectively good things, the only way that someone could remotely think they were bad is if they confuse ‘production value’ with ‘quality’.
In 1992 a crime film was released called “White Sands” having a budget of $22 Million. That same year an indie film was released called “Reservoir Dogs” with a budget of $1.2 – 3 million. White Sands had great production values and 11 times more budget than Reservoir Dogs had.
Both films had very good actors, but ironically the Tarantino film was the one that didn’t star Samuel L. Jackson. The ‘production value’ of Dogs is quite low. There are only a handful of locations and the majority of the film is shot in 1 room of 1 warehouse.
Reservoir Dogs is to this day hailed as one of the best films of the genre and a ‘masterpiece’ and White Sands is… I’ve honestly never even heard anyone mention it even once in the last 33 years and had no idea it even existed before googling ‘Crime films from 1992’.
See also “Monty Python and the Holy Grail”, “Halloween”, “Trainspotting”, “The Evil Dead”, “Night of the Living Dead”, “Memento”…etc
Having a huge budget and high production values clearly don’t make a film good or lack thereof a film bad- same goes for video games.
There are plenty of “AAA” games that were turds you’ve just forgotten about them. And there are still plenty of AAA games being released so saying that we’ve " been conditioned to accept (indie games) now." is just wrong. People don’t play indie games because they’ve been ‘conditioned to accept’ them, they play them because they are fun.
Are we putting Fez and Journey in the same bucket as that old ass shitty freeware Slenderman game?
Castlevania would be an Indie game by todays standards in budget, team size and concept.
You are making an argument about 21st century cars based on your favorite 19th century horse carriage.
You don’t understand, clearly.
What makes these games better is that the developers did more with less. They are also simply of higher quality than the indie games trying to copy them without trying nearly as hard.
You should get some experience by actually playing these games and then come back to us.
But that is the definition of today’s indie games. You have games that are done by a single person, or a very small group in a shoe string budget. As far as I know there was no such thing back then, especially in the console market (I can think of a few exceptions on PC) . What today is viewed as less resources back then was still for that time a big studio or team.
Is that a parody? Isn’t Castlevania: Symphony of the Night famous because of its god awful menu screen that was literally a placeholder and they forgot or didn’t have time to change it?
I too was there 3000 years ago and there was a lot of shit AAA games even back them. For one there was a lot of bad habits from the arcade time that made a lot of gameplay suboptimal. I think that it is just survivorship bias because the 90% not great is forgotten with time and we only remember the great games.
But all of that is beside the point, how can you put Fez and Slenderman in the same group? Fez is a great game, there is no lower quality in any aspect of it. In fact in modern games I see more experimentation and innovation in Indie titles and almost none in AAA because they are so expensive they have to always play it safe (same shit happening with the film industry by the way).
Suggesting Symphony of the Night is well-known because of a goofy menu screen is almost comically missing the forest for the trees.
Ok, I reread my comment, sorry, it is my bad, English is not my first language and I should have proof read it. I will edit my original comment.
What I meant was that The menu in Symphony of the Night is famously bad, not that the game is known for or only because of its bad menu.
Now I’m wondering what games are known for their menus lol, maybe Eve Online?
Oh year. It’s the corporations who are the good guys.
Huh, it’s not like Reddit to be pointlessly hateful 😌
It’s like they’re trained or something… like some sort of engine… that-uh that tanks their thinking…
Lol pointless hate isnt limited to reddit.
I interacted with mostly good people on Reddit outside of influence agents and trolls. The problem is the site moderation is corrupted.
Yeah, lemmy definitely isn’t immune, there’s just a lot less of it almost definitely in part because there is a lot less engagement in general.
I honestly don’t think that’s true. Lemmy has way more human engagement than reddit for the large communities. It’s still missing on the niche subjects, but that’ll catch up.
I want to know how we can pull more people on here so we do not have to use these Silicon Valley parasites.
We’re not that far out, probably another year or two. It keeps getting easier and easier to join. Piefed looks like a good avenue to recommend because it’s easier to use than lemmy. They say they’re ran by a non-profit.
I am not all that Savvy and I almost gave up trying to join Lemmy here. The first instance I tried to join did not accept my application for whatever reason and two days time, this one did within just a few hours but I almost did not bother trying a second one. Is this pie fed and instance of the Federated Lemmy here? I’m not entirely certain how all this works but the idea I wholeheartedly support and think is the future for online communication of people that are not tools.
Think of federation like the Hawaii Islands. It’s a group of types of social media, and they’re kind of similar.
Each island has its own flavor and way of traveling to other islands though. Meaning, some have commercial airplanes and some don’t, so you have to travel with your own personal boat to certain islands. Same with federation, you have the twitter style of Mastodon where they can post on the reddit style of Lemmy, but lemmy can’t really post on Mastodon.
Piefed is a reddit style and you can’t really tell the difference to lemmy, other than Piefed seems to have a better user interface. I haven’t personally tried Piefed, but the features they brag about seem great.
There are all kinds of other types of federation (or islands) that are similar to other social media types. There’s youtube, tumbler, instagram types, etc. They may or may not be able to communicate with lemmy back and forth easily.
An instance is just a computer (or many computers) someone has set up to handle all of the traffic and data, that’s it. That’s why some instances don’t get back to you, that instance owner may have had something personally come up, or they’re not really working on the project anymore. Some may be owned by big corporations as well, we just don’t know.
I hope this doesn’t confuse you more, but feel free to ask any questions and I’ll try my best to answer them quickly.
Yes, there’s less in terms of there being fewer overall discussions going on. Proportionally, though, I’d say Lemmy feels very similar to Reddit in terms of hivemind circlejerking and hateposting.
I finally blocked most lemmy.world comms and started blocking users who I feel make the vibe worse, and that’s helped.
i started blocking “know it alls, or ackshually, this not how you pronounce or say it” they are up to no good, and prone to argue if you respond.
One thing I was surprised to find was the old grammar nazi shit when I first joined. Fortunately it’s died down in the past couple years but it seemed like reddit from 15 years ago so it was pretty noticeable
Or Steam, for that matter.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s not to listen to jaded assholes online.
