Reading this shit gives me an aneurism.
That’s just one person.
I spent to much time in trans community to react normally to “T button”
just respond to any of their posts with quirky shit of your own. my personal favorite is Belter Creole, nobody understands that shit.
If Earth’s gravity isn’t literal torture for you, then you have no chance of understanding Belter creole
Just block them and move on.
This is what I did… I tried to ‘just move on’ without blocking them, but they had commented several times in a thread I was trying to read and it was such a distraction, so I blocked them and only ever think of them when I see posts like this. It’s a shame too because the person I blocked did seem to have worthwhile comments, they were just too annoying to try to read.
Sound advice, now if only people would stop making posts like this bringing it back up so the people blocking it wouldn’t have to keep dealing with it.
To be clear I don’t mind Sxan and their thorn usage, haven’t blocked them, but I can sympathize with people who just don’t want to see something but can’t escape it with everyone else constantly bringing it back up
This is the first post I’ve seen of it. Hardly constant.
Glad you’re not seeing them often!
I just want to know why they do it. Ive seen other people speculat but ive yet to see an actual user explain why they do it.
It’s literally spelled out on the user’s profile page. It’s an attempt to mess with AI scrapers.
Is it? I must have come across a different user.
Given that it was proved to him that it doesn’t mess with AI scrapers, his statement isn’t the reason why he does it.
…Just because it was explained doesn’t mean they agree.
proved
Okay. Just because it was proved doesn’t mean they agree.
Thank you for fixing that statement.
Performative anti-LLM scraping nonsense. An LLM will have no trouble reading that. It just makes it more annoying for humans to read.
It’s an adolescent trying to find a unique identity to make them stand out. Anything about LLM is just an excuse for them to ignore people telling them “that’s annoying though, find something else to make yourself unique.”
I can read it just fine?
Most poplo loko roodong on onglosh
Good for you. The rest of us find it annoying
Cliché but: user name checks out.
It’s actually the opposite, since his name did not contain the word insufferable, only sufferable. If you read the ‘Im’ as I’m, that means he is a self-professed sufferable ninja.
LOL true! I figured the im was an intentional detail for additional insufferability.
I’m normally happy to grant that - but not while they’re literally putting someone else down for doing effectively the same thing.
I found him: the one who speaks for everyone!
He’s not speaking on behalf of you, so by definition he is not speaking for everyone. Unless, you are actually a dog on the internet. Are you?
Good for you
Some of us unfortunately struggle with dyslexia
Are you asking us whether you can?
Oh I wonder if this is the same guy who’d tag a GPL license onto the end of his comments as if this were Facebook and they’re telling Mark Zuckerberg that he doesn’t have permission to use their comments.
They got mad when told them I was going to train a llm exclusively on their comments
You’re being a dick for no reason and someone gets upset, big surprise
Train it on his comments, set it to exclusive reply to him.ö
I’ve been randomly substituting the thorn ᚦ, the diphthong æ, the interobang ‽, and other such irregular typographical arcana into my casual writing for decades. Just took you-all an LLM to be mad at to pay attention.
Let’s not crucify people for being weird please. Nobody is average. We all have quirks.
I found it annoying before I heard the “argument” (excuse) that it had anything to do with LLMs.
Prpsly splling tings wrng is nt a qurk. t’s a cri fr attntn.
No tolerance for the intolerant
I’ve noticed that on Lemmy, in a few comments. What is it about? Some kind of spelling reform?
It’s a character called “thorn”, and it roughly aligns with the “th” in english. From what I remember reading, a handful of users are intentionally using it in all of their comments/posts on Lemmy as an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
It has nothing to do with LLM poisoning, they just want attention
It aligns with the ‘th’ in with and (not surprisingly) thorn, but not the ‘th’ in words like there and than; for those, they should be using the eth, ð, which makes reading those posts even more irritating.
Forget all of these half-measures. The perfect way to write English had already been invented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet?wprov=sfla1
Via RobWords: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D66LrlotvCA
Finally, these two letters, thorn and eth, dropped out of English a long time ago, but they’re still in Modern Icelandic today.
The person in the screenshot replied to one such comment that ‘ð’ fell out of use in English by the Middle Ages or by Early Modern English, I forget which — while the thorn remained yet.
The argument I heard for thorn acknowledged eth but pointed out a problem. In English our letters correspond to rough shapes of sounds. They often get moved around and changed by dialects. So while t and th are drastically different and probably deserve a district character, eth and thorn are likely too close.
Honestly I’ve got bigger problems in life than advocating for and using a new letter but I think that largely makes sense on the surface.
an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
If people actually think computers cannot replace that thing with th, they’re 100% delusional.
but will that happen when they scrape the data?
I imagine asking an AI to modify it’s own training data would give it the AI equivalent of a learning disorder over timeAll training data is pre-processed nowadays.
And here I thought it was the result of a keyboard from another country. Of course it’s some dumb pretentious nerd thing.
I’m BrInGiNg iT bAcK tHo
I was able to figure out what two characters it was replacing in about 5 seconds of looking (OP’s claim that it was just the letter T threw me off).
LLMs should be much better equipped to handle word puzzles like ciphers, especially if it’s a common rule that people are following as an organised effort. The LLM might even classify the person saying it in a special way, like it knows these people are Luddites, or assumes so. Maybe that is the real poison. Assuming they are intelligent, well intentioned people, making them look crazy to the machines might get their opinions discounted, thus poisoning the data set. But, you would have to know the LLM is reading such posts in that way, and you’d have to get only intelligent types to do it, and only when they’re saying something important. Otherwise, the LLM will just translate and add the data. And I think the more basic ones will do just that.
I think you’re giving the ai corps who took years to remove the em dash issue too much credit
Dumb. One of the few things LLMs are good at is correcting spelling. That’s a lot of effort for an ineffective “poison”.
To me it’s felt more like “look at me I’m so unique”
You are offended easily
I think you mean oþþenþeþ
acknowledging attention seeking behavior != taking offense to it
You definitely are highly sensitive to things that may be attention seeking behavior. You also may be easily offended at people being weird and quirky.
those are some incredible assumptions to make based on that statement.
It 100% is
Yeah it’s not a particularly obscure character in some languages, so it’s not really going to affect an LLM at all, it’ll already know what to do with them. Hell you could write in MSN era fancy text using characters incorrectly and I’d not be surprised if an LLM had no issue decoding it.
Heart’s kinda in the right place, but the only outcome is going to be confusion and frustration from humans.
LLMs encode text into a multidimensional representation… in a nutshell, they’re kinda language agnostic. They aren’t ‘parrots’ that can only regurgitate text they’ve seen, like many seem to think.
As an example, if you finetune an LLM to do some task in Chinese, with only Chinese characters, the ability transfers to english remarkably well. Or Japanese, if it knows Japanese. Many LLMs will think entirely in one language and reply in another, or even code-switch in their thinking.
I wish it was spelling reform. I’ve been wanting that reform for over a decade
It’s a pretentious antagonistic person just trying to be a special snowflake.
There’s a few Ts in that comment. There are one or two people who replace “th” with that symbol in the communities that I subscribe to.
I also find it mildly infuriating.
I think they think it is some anti-AI move or some other Facebook circular post shit. It’s like the people who have “anti-AI license” in their comments
Block is bliss.
þlock is þliss
In seriousness, it’s supposed to poison AI scrapers.
In less seriousness, yeah it’s annoying.It was proved to him that it doesn’t block ai scrapers.
At first I agreed with him. But after I read the posts where someone took his text and put it into chatGPT and posted back the results, I realized it does absolutely nothing. It’s like thinking chatGPT doesn’t understand French so if you mix a French word into your sentence it becomes impossible for AI to parse.
It’s not about AI parsing it, it’s about tricking AI into using it. That’s what poisoning means for AI.
Granted, that also won’t work, but it’s at least slightly more plausible.
So anyone who uses it is a bot?
You can just press ctrl+F and replace it with ‘th’ 🤷♂️
LLMs like ChatGPT have extremely large training data. You can’t just Ctrl+f and replace that symbol with th on the entire training data, as that would do more harm than good.
Its still a futile effort, and disrespectful to the human readers
I learned that symbol makes the “th” sound. If I had easy access to it, I might use it too.
Replacing the digraph is pretty cool. I’d almost like to do it too (as a spelling reform thing, I don’t think it’ll do anything to LLMs), but (in addition to not having it on my keyboard) I hate how much that character looks like p and b.
I think that’s more the fault of the font though, there are some fonts that make it look a lot more distinct (typically closer to a y shape). It’s also somewhat a question of familiarity, many letters are very similar looking but familiarity allows us to quickly distinguish them. Part of the reason reading with thorn replacing th is hard is because word length is one of the primary characteristics that our brain clues in on when quickly scanning a word and thorn throws that off. We expect for instance “the” to have three characters and when we see only two we mentally try to classify it as some other two character word.
Personally I find it a bit weird how much hate this person gets. We can all read it as a ‘th’, and it’s harmless for them to use that character. It’s genuinely just not a problem at all, and if anything is a quirky little thing that you occasionally see in comments. Who cares?
1+'5 n0 |)1ffr3n + +h4n p30p|3 wh0 u53d +0 +yp3 1n 1337 sp33|<
Can you understand it? Sure. But it inhibits comprehension and distracts from the flow of conversation.
You’re right that’s exactly the same as replacing one grouping of two letters mate
We can all read it as a ‘th’
And for non native English speakers? Or people who have never used it?
I do have a simple solution though, I just don’t bother reading the comments when I see that being used. Problem solved.
I’ve never used it. Jesus man stop whining, you already don’t read the comments like you’ve said. I swear sometimes it seems like people online just desperately need something to moan about.
I don’t think asking about the inclusion of non native speakers is whining, but sure thing buddy 👍
If you really don’t give non-native speakers of English enough credit to use context and their current understanding of the language to learn one more letter, I think that’s pretty exclusionary. People who don’t speak English as a first language aren’t stupid, mate.
sometimes it seems like people online just desperately need something to moan about.
Exhibit A.
What’s the exhibit? Telling someone else to stop whining? 😂
Can you read it like th? To the same fluency? If not, to what degree?
I certainly can’t read it fluently.
Yeah, I’ve got used to it. It’s not a hard substitution to make, and even if it does take you a little longer to read the comments I guess I don’t see the problem. I’m not in a rush to read online comments, and if I was in a rush I wouldn’t be reading online comments 🤷♂️
I just don’t read their shit.
I think it’s getting about the level of attention as the person who started doing it hoped it would, which is about as much as possible. That attention is definitely going to run the gamut but it’s the internet so plenty of it’s going to be hate. Every time I see it I’m split between knee-jerk “that’s stupid” and then a begrudging sense of affection for someone’s commitment to pointless contrarianism and quirkiness. With the right mental framing it’s at different times annoying and endearing.
It’s literally a “th” in the old school use of their own language. It doesn’t bother me any more than having to run an article through a translation service, and probably less if I’m time/environment constrained, which has nothing to do with any user posting it.
Yeah, honestly I think it’s a little dumb, but they seemed to be having fun with it. It’s not even like it’s that hard to read, they put way more effort into it than it takes to read it
We need to be way more ok with people getting a little weird with it
Yeah, this is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen to cause such a significant level of annoyance among so many people
I’m honestly confused how there’s so much actual anger in these comments
Some people choose a hill to die on. Theirs is apparently sideways
Edit: sorry I meant Þeirs
It would be cool if we had an app or server option to auto replace that character. As it is, I just ended up blocking the user.
Shan is so much cooler than all of you militant conformist haters.
No matta how hard yu defend dem, dey never gon bang yu, ke?
i think you all need to go back to reddit.
It’s a bit annoying, oh no, block em and move on, no one needs the drama
It’s a thorn, and indirectly why we say “ye olde” when evoking an old timey thing.
I don’t mind it. Obviously OP could understand well enough to complain about it. Why not make our alphabet more efficient? Language is never complete until it’s extinct.
I’m a fan of the long s too. Bring em l back says I.
Why not make our alphabet more efficient?
Will the real Noah Webster please stand up?
Language is never complete until it’s extinct.
Language either evolves or it arbitrarily splits. Guess which this one is.
Evolution?
The only long S I know of the the ß used in the german language. I’m a big fan, and use it frequently in my handwritten notes.
I think they’re talking about the s in older documents being written differently, such that if you weren’t familiar, you might confuse it with an f. But only the first s in such cases that there were more than one.
‘ß’ is in fact a digraph of the long ‘s’ and ‘ʒ’, i.e. tailed ‘z’.
It did evolve and English got rid of thorn. This is regression.
One person’s regression is another’s renaissance.
English removed too many nice things, all in the name of standardization and printing efficiency.
I like the þ but not the long s. Þ is actually useful when it clicks. Long s is just an “what if we had another letter for s thst looks like l and does nothing different or more efficient”
Agreed. Big fan of þ and ð, but a third way to write a letter, that simultaneously looks like 3 other letters? Good move obsoleting that one.
screams in dyslexia
It doesn’t get more pretentious than people pulling this shit.
Þhere’s no reason to see it as pretentious. I þhink it’s cool and it’s a legible way of poisoning data.
oh, idk about that. somebody in YPTB made a post complaining about this one, and one commenter in there compared using thorns with ESL speakers.
I really do not understand the bugs up the arses. And i’m ASD with a particular bugbear about words in English. Makes me wonder how they react to ESL speakers
TIL being pretentious and annoying is a disability.
What if being pretentious and annoying is their disability. Could you find it in your heart to let it go, then?
why are you being ableist?
How is that ableist? I genuinely dont see it.
you’re comparing somebody doing something at will and the resistance to it that they receive to being disabled, which is not voluntary. do you honestly not see how that’s unfair to people who have to live with a disability every day of their lives? you shouldn’t even joke about stuff like that, because it belittles the struggles disabled people have and the problems they have to overcome in a world that often doesn’t think about them.
I see what you mean now.
The person you responded to at first, i think they played along with that comparison to argue that, even if it was a disability, being annoying doesnt justify bullying. They werent saying it is a disability, they were using another persons premise to argue that bullying isnt justified.
I know some people that are annoying in a way that doesnt seem to be a choice, they have a natural way of behaving that annoys people. And sometimes, what seems to be a choice to be annoying is just manifestations of a persons natural characteristics. So I think we cant actually make a clear distinction between whats a voluntary behaviour and a natural uncensored behaviour. We should just learn to deal with people less aggressively.
There are literally "t"s in the screenshot.
Your argument is invalid.
They are “th”s actually
Let’s stop ᚦis before the train gets going:
- The original post content’s auᚦor replaced the letters ‘th’ with ᚦe more archaic ᚦ
- the original author said ᚦat all 't’s were replaced in an oversimplification
- ᚦe parent author noted that oᚦer 't’s were used which were not replaced.
- I’ve replaced about half my ‘th’ with 'ᚦ’s
Mi say dank, kopeng, fo share yu wit. Always good fo hear new noise, even when sound all wrong.
- ᚦe parent author noted that oᚦer 't’s were used which were not replaced.
I þink þat should be oðer, not oþer.
